Religion: What it means to you

I am a Pagan. I turned my back on Christianity because my mother gave me a nasty view on it. I was forced into church, confirmation and the such. She tried to force her views on social issues on me like gays are wrong and abortion is the work of the devil.

I think I was a pagan since I was 6 because I had all their beliefs. I even celebrate the pagan holidays what Christianity converted into their own, like Yule/Christmas. I really think that Christianity is a awesome religion (Jesus really kicks ass!) and you can't go wrong with the ten commandments, but as long a people like my mother exist within it, I kind of feel turned off by it

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Not really, being pushed in a direction that I do not want to follow is not making look good to me. Everyone in my home community are like that.

I don't really believe in a lot of the social issues that hard-core Christians have, so I just walk outside of it. Pagans do not preach and try to spread their word, Christians do. Actually, some of the great religions of the world where almost extinct because of Christians 500-1000 years ago.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Fyodor D.

Like the Aztec religions? Or the polynesian head-hunters? Or the original druids? Or the american indian groups?
All of these were immensely violent cultures, built around war and violence.
Can you give any such examples of nice, peaceful groups who were "destroyed" by Christian evangelism?

Here ya go.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I have been reading through this whole thread from where I last posted (I am at work and bored as hell)
and I thought that I'd respond to a few things that caught my eye.

Originally Posted by shadowlink56

Sex is always a big topic with the Catholic church, being that they're against contraceptives (for good reason if you've ever taken the time to listen to the argument) and pre-marital sex.

I would really like to know what these 'good reasons' are, please educate me... because I am a pro-contraceptives gal.

Originally Posted by Godless Cod

Apart from that, contraception is a good thing, it stops many unwanted pregnancies, and with the current population at more than 6billion, it is needed. More children will result in more poverty and starvation.

Right on the dot Godless Cod! Also speaking from a woman's point of view, contraception in the form of a birth control pill is a blessing! I can skip the the pain that the period brings me, regulates my periods so that I can plan around them, and they help prevent ovairan cancer.

Originally Posted by shadowlink56

I'd argue the opposite, and the church obviously does too. Since 1930 unwanted pregnancies have gone up. Because women and men can have sex at any time with contraception with the false idea that it won't result in pregnancy leads to 'mistakes' (they should be welcomed surprises) when the contraceptive fails.

Not all sex happnes willingly... if a woman is on birth control and happens to get raped, that will protect her from a unwanted pregnancey.

Originally Posted by shadowlink56

It's not for everybody, but Natural Family Planning (the idea that a woman is naturally infertile for several days during each month) is a more responsible way to avoid preganancy, while still being open to children if God wills it.

Every woman is different biologiclly, so you can become preganent anytime you have unprotected sex.
And God does not 'will' a conception, man and woman have sex, sperm meets egg... and boom! One baby comming right up! Sounds more like nature to me.

Originally Posted by shadowlink56

As for the population, there is overcrowding in areas, but contraceptives will not solve this problem. Ignorance is the true problem here. If we educate the people of third world countries (not even necessarily within the church), then less pregnancies as a result of rape may occur because some cultures believe that raping virgins is the way to get rid of the AIDS epidemic.

Over population is real, and it will result in our own destruction. The more people there are, the more resources will be used up. Contraceptives and aportion will help because unwanted children will not be born and keep the population in check. Education is the key for the AIDS epidemic, teaching that raping virgins is not the answer, how AIDS is spread.

I get a kick how the pope is against condoms, espcially knowing that people are going to have sex anyway, may as well do it safely and help control the spread of AIDS, and remember that not all women in Africa have any control over their sex lifes, if she is not on any contraceptives, she will be having more and more babies then she wants.

Originally Posted by shadowlink56

Of course, there are also exceptions to every rule within the church. In dire situation where a mother is diagnosed that she would die if she had a child, for the safety of the mother it may be okay (depending on the diocese) to use contraceptives or have surgery.

It is convenient for a man to say this, afterall you guys get to sit back while the woman has to change her lifestyle for 9 months and go through hours of intense labor. But rather then go into the pro-abortion detailes... read the thread The topic of Abortion
and read the posts made by me and my pal Amanda.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by shadowlink56

While the results are just coming in from women being on the pill for 20 years (and most of them aren't life-threatening) they are finding that it is tougher for those women to get pregnant when they want to.

My mom said that too, but I confirmed with my doctor that getting preganent when you stop the pill is just as easy if you never been on them, at least it is that way with the brand that I am taking.

I didn't have a boyfirend when I decided to go on the pill, my main reason for going on them was because I was sick of the menstual pain, sometimes it was so bad that I could not even walk. The fact that they cleared my skin was a bonus.

Originally Posted by shadowlink56

My wife also experiences incredible menstual pain, but when she was on the pill she said she didn't feel like herself. She tried several different doses as well, and always felt like a zombie, and had some other, nastier issues as well.

I can agree that the pill has certain effects on different women, in my case I got depressed on the first month, after I was ok. One contraceptive I really don't want to try is the patch, my cousin tried them and she said it made her cranky all the time, the pill has been worked on the most so it is the one I will trust the most.

Originally Posted by shadowlink56

Most people on birth control buy into the fact that they are totally safe, but when a baby comes it's a tragedy that affects their lives detrimentally. If you had a baby now, would you be responsible enough to take care of it?

The pill has been proven to be 99.9% effective when taking it correctly, yet I still don't feel that I should rely on it... it's not even the reason I am taking them. My boyfirend and I don't have sex often at all... it is either my low drive of the fact that even though the chances are slim, I am scared to death that I will get pregnant, I really don't want to have a baby now, but if I do get pregnant, most likely I will get a abortion while the fetus is in the early 1st timester, if it has become a baby then I will keep it and raise it.

Originally Posted by shadowlink56

If you believe in God, you should believe that every child is a gift from God. Isn't that what most people say when a child is born wantingly? It's a miracle, or a blessing, etc. God should be involved with conceptions, as it is he who sends the child. At least that's my belief. It's definitely okay to disagree.

I am a pagen, so I would be thanking a goddess, Bastet is the one I respect the most, she is the cat goddess of life and happiness, I would thank for the soul that the child is born with

Originally Posted by shadowlink56

Overpopulation is also blown out of proportion here in the states. If you were living in China it would be another story, but here people simply need to take a road trip to discover how much undeveloped land there is. Things like viruses and natural disasters do a much better job than abortions do (if we see the death of thousands as a good thing? Again, yikes!).

Actually I didn't say that abortion is meant for population control, but when you look at the number of abortions going on all over the world... that is a lot
fetuses that didn't become babies. I still really do believe that overpopulation is getting out of hand, so much so that mother nature is thinking of ways to cull us, such as natural desasters and disease.
It is something that I would never wish on anyone, I feel awful about all these terrible things that are happening to people overseas, and donate to relief efforts, but the fact that our population needs to be lowered for the sake of the planet is a cold real fact. It is cruel, but still true.

Originally Posted by shadowlink56

Most people want to try to stop the crazy amount of deaths that occur due to these natural events and viruses. Tons of money is spent on it. The reality is we can stop the tragedy of abortion, and the loss of SO much life. This is the first time I've heard abortion used as a positive because it keeps the population in check. It's horrible to hear someone take such a dark view of the world: that enough people need to die to keep the balance and not use up MY resources. Disgusting.

The world has been dark to me, so I can see why I would look at the world in a negative view. As I have mentioned, I do not view abortion at a means of population control, I look at it as if Marysue next door wanted a abortion, it has got nothing to do with me, that is what 'choice' is about, same as if I get pregnent, I can allow it to develop if I want to.

If mother nature decides to take me with a earthquake or bird flu, then that is fine by me. I don't think that our population needs to be controlled for my sake at all.... it is because of us that green house gas is getting out of hand and the polar bear have less ice to hunt on.

Originally Posted by shadowlink56

I always found myself to be pro-choice before I became Catholic. Now I've ammended my viewpoint, because it's two different issues. I'm pro-life in that I am against aborting life for selfish reasons. Let's face it, most abortions are done because the mother can't take care of it because she's unprepared or something in her life is more important that a baby would "wreck". Unless the baby is going to kill the mother, there is very little reason to abort the baby.

I guess the question I would really like to ask in this case is... A 15 year old girl is walking home, she get mugged and raped on the way home and is pregnent as a result, what do you think should happen?

Originally Posted by shadowlink56

There are much better alternatives, like, ya know, adoption? Even though the adoption system almost everywhere is backlogged and full, they still get to live their life.

I fully agree with you there! I personally thing adoption is better to do in this day and age. There are so many children out there with no home or family, some are even kids that where carried full term instead of being aborted. I think we should look after these kids first instead of making more.

Originally Posted by shadowlink56

Relating to your other comments on abortion in the other thread, I believe I addressed most of them here. It has to do with selfishness and taking responsibility. I did notice that you mentioned that abortions do not affect society though. The value of human life in a society directly affects how that society acts toward each other. Have you noticed people caring less and less about each other? I have, and I bet anyone who drives can argue the same way.

You know shadowlink, if the catholics in my area where like you, I would have more friends, but they are not. It is nice to know that someone wants the world to be a utopia where all children are born in a place that they can grow up happy, healthy, and that poverty is a thing of the past... but it is sad to say that it is not going to happen, especially they way humanity is now, and no religion or god can fix it.

Not all pregnancy's happen because they are wanted (ie rape) and not all abortions happen because the mother wants it to (ie issues with fetus or mom) and if someone is getting a abortion for another reason, that is not my business, same as if the gay couple next door wants to marry.

I don't like the reality of things either, I want to live in a moral and ideal world but I know that it's just not going to happen.

Most amazing jew boots

Originally Posted by shadowlink56

I'm curious though, when you went to the doctor and mentioned menstrual pain did they say it was normal? My wife went to several doctors and all they would tell her is that it's "normal" and that she basically needed to deal with it, and then prescribed birth control as the easy fix.

Yup, my doc said that everything is ok, the pain is normal as long its not out of control or anything. Some months where ok and other months where 'I gotta lay down' pain. But thanks to the pill, I can skip that nonsense.

Originally Posted by shadowlink56

The patch, to my understanding, is a pretty heavy dose of estrogen. Some of the first pills had dangerous amounts of it. These days they're still experimenting with what works. Did you have to try several different pills or did you just stick with one?

They do, that is why the risk of getting a blood clot is far higher with the patch then it is with the pill. The pill has come a long way, and it is still being worked on to make it more safer then it is now. So far I have only tried one brand, and they are doing quite well for me. I wasn't surprised
with the depresstion, I have a problem with depresstion anyway.

Originally Posted by shadowlink56

My question is, when you have sex do you enjoy it, or are you thinking to heavily about what MIGHT happen that it ruins the mood and the passion? My wife had a real tough time with sex when we first started because of that, and I'm actually amazed our relationship survived it. I thought it was me, and she would get distraught and unsure, etc. It was tough. I understand what was going on now, but back then my immature self couldn't grasp it. I just wanted to express my love, and a lot! I cared about her, but I didn't respect her. Looking back on it I was disgusting, and somewhat uncaring regarding the consequences.

Both really, I enjoy it but I also think what might happen. I have a very low sex drive and I also may be having the same issue your wife had too. My boyfriend always tries to assure me that he understands, but c'mon! I know that he still wants it, he is a man after all, I can't really blame him. That made me stressed to, so you two are not alone with these feelings.

Originally Posted by shadowlink56

We learned about NFP during our marriage "training" that must take place to get married in the church. This is where this whole religious journey began for me. I wasn't thrilled about it and had many hangups about churches, but decided that I was doing it for her and that I would try my damnedest to keep an open mind. Now look at me! An open mind is dangerous around a church! Heh!

Marriage training?! ooh boy... the funny thing is I am a pagen dating a catholic, most likely we will get married and he will be required to take the training... I bet we are going to get a lot of odd looks when they figure out who I am. My b/f may be a catholic, but there are times that he is more liberal than I am and looks at the realities and corruption of this world harsher than I do. I don't see how living married is going to be different then living commonlaw, so why do the catholic church require marrage training?

Originally Posted by shadowlink56

My big handgups were why the Catholic church is "against" gays (which I found they are not, of course), why women can't be preists (which is complicated to explain), NFP (mentioned), the scandals of the preisthood, and the whole thought of organized religion. Hopefully it's sufficient to say that I overcame these issues through a lot of prayer and reflection.

Being gay is as natural as being straight as far as I am concerned... being gay does not mean that they think more about sex then a straight person, they just prefer the same sex thats all, which is why I don't see the problem with preists being gay. When it comes to mother nature, I would like to think of it as a way of natural population control, same sex couples can't conceive can they.

Originally Posted by shadowlink56

Still, there are still people in the church who know better like the preists, but still act poorly. While these people bother me immensely, I can't let it derail my personal journey. It's difficult to get up with some of these people and profess my faith, knowing full well they don't truly understand it. Still, it's their failing or the failing of others during their journey in the church, not mine.

It bothers me too, every religion, no matter the goodness they teach, tend to have a few bad apples.

What you said in response to my 15 year old girl rape scenario makes sense, but what could happen in real life would depend on the girl. If it happened to me, first I would be tramatized, then I'd get the guy found and arrested, then beat him to a pulp, and then decide what to do with the fetus. If I kept it, I would definitely make the guy responsible for his actions.

Originally Posted by shadowlink56

Society needs to be much more responsible in this aspect. This seems to be the hidden issue of all of our sex problems. The children. Are they swept under the rug and forgotten?

I know I will be attacked for this, but to me a fetus is not a child until it is developed enough to be taken out of the womb and survive in a incubator.

Originally Posted by shadowlink56

If they have not made the decision in their own heart to truly follow Jesus and his teachings, then they have a tough journey ahead of them to find that truth and come to grips with it, and I'll pray for them. I mentioned hypocrites before, and if any Catholic ever condemns anyone to Hell, it should be immediately apparent that they do not understand their faith. Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, despite their supposed extensive knowledge of the Bible, have no CLUE as to what it truly holds! I know this because of their statements and actions. They condemn people. It is not our place to judge. It is our place to pray, live a life that models Jesus', and spread the Word. It is all too easy to overstep our bounds when we feel strongly about something, but we must know our place.

I completely agree. I enjoy learning about different religions and I really do think that christanity and islam are decent faiths when followed correctly, but I rather follow a religion that holds women in higher value like paganism... I still don't understand why women can't be a preist in the catholic church.

Originally Posted by shadowlink56

I don't believe in gay marriage, but I do believe in gay union. Their rights as human beings should not be affected because they can't get officially married. Gay couples should be able to share the same benefits under the law that heterosexual couples do. Still, gay marriage to me is an oxymoron. It doesn't make sense from a Catholic standpoint if you know what it means to get married in the Catholic church. It's like a gay preist doesn't make sense to me. If a preist is gay, but abstinent, then he has no reason to profess the fact that he's gay or has gay thoughts because that is his personal struggle. He is no longer a gay preist, he's a preist who struggles with gay thoughts.

Being gay is not a struggle, it is as natural as being straight, the person is just attracted to the same gender, at leaset they are attracted to A gender like everyone else (unless you are asexual) I have made my statement on same-sex couples anyway so I won't blabber on....

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

This thread is still alive?!

All I can really say that I have not said on this thread before is the major religions are quite decent, it's just the bad apples that can give some of them a bad name.

FELIPE NO

Well you gotta admit, some of the ten commandments are decent.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?