Love or sex?

Originally Posted by Plarom

If we're talking forever, there's no middle ground. It's both or neither.

^

I've had both (love with bad sex and great sex without love), and if we're talking a lifelong commitment, it needs to be both. No question. Either one without the other isn't satisfying for more than a short period of time.

People who say they can live without good sex from a partner they intend to stay with, exclusively, for the rest of their lives, either have a medical problem--like a hormone deficiency--or they've never actually had good sex. They don't know what they're missing, so it's easy to settle.

In your sister's case, though, I would guess that she needs to break up with him. She hardly sounds happy. And saying "he loves her! that should be enough for her!" is more than a little naive on your part.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Alice

I still don't see what's wrong with admitting that there needs to be both. It's almost like some of you get offended that other people require love as well as good sex.

To Geddings, I think it's very naive of you to say that if you had someone who loved you for you, you wouldn't care. I call bullshit on that. I think you would most definitely care in the long-term if you weren't being fulfilled sexually, unless you honestly don't care about sex at all.

Alice = win.

Let's look at this logically, shall we? Humans are sexual beings. We have hormones. Evolution, mother nature, our libido, whatever you want to call it, insists that we have sex. It's part of our wiring to reproduce. Unless (as I mentioned earlier) you have a hormonal imbalance or an actual medical issue or anomaly, you have the drive to have sex. It's there. You can't do anything about it. It may not be as strong as someone else's, but it exists.

Bad sex means the sex you have (or attempted to have) doesn't do it for you. Not "oh it was medicore but I still got off," but "that was so horrifying/underwelming that not only did I not come but I was traumatized by the experience." Meaning that you are perpetually unfulfilled. Which means that you either go insane from bottling up your sexual desires, or you find some other outlet for it. Such as cheating. Or even masturbation.

Picture this, for a second. You fall in love with a fat girl. You hate fat girls, but you looooove her so much you marry her anyway. She's the love of your life. Only problem is, her body disgusts you so much that you can't even get it up, much less put it in her. So you find some other way to take care of it. Let's take the easy route and say you beat it off every so often. How do you think that makes her feel? You love her, but she doesn't get you off. You can only get off if you picture some other, hotter chick riding you. Does that sound like a healthy relationship to you? Does that sound like happiness?

That shit tears marriages apart all the time. It doesn't matter how much you love each other, the frustration caused by that kind of sexual disconnect will drive a wedge between you a mile wide.

Now what you guys are saying is, if you truly love each other, shouldn't you be able to figure out a way to satisfy each other sexually, even if you don't click sexually to start out with? You should. Maybe. If you work hard enough. But that's not the question: the question was either/or. And if you honestly think that there exists a romantic love so great that it can survive unscathed when one or both partners are majorly sexually unfulfilled, then it's a really good thing that natural selection will do its work and prevent you from reproducing.

I hope you kids get what you wish for.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by DragoonKain

I don't think you can "fall in love" with someone who you aren't attracted to, so the fat girl thing is a bad example.

Falling in love is both sexual and platonic. Otherwise it is no different from loving a pet or family member.

No, actually, it's a perfect example, for precisely the reason you suggested. It is ridiculous to suggest that romantic love can survive without sexual attraction and subsequent fulfillment.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

I am going to get soooo much shit for this, and I am very likely in the minority, but a person's general appearance/my attraction to them means very little me to begin with.

Before you guys jump all over me, let me explain! Please! ;_;

There was this guy once, right? I thought he was so goddamned attractive. I could stare at him all day! He was everything I ever liked, as far as looks were concerned.

Until I got to know his personality. And I didn't like it at all. This actually made me find him unattractive. No joke. I started to dislike that "attractive" look he had before I saw what kind of person he was.

On the other hand, I've met a LOT of ugly people. Really unattractive - people I would never consider myself being attracted to. Until they showed me who they were, and suddenly, they progressively became more and more attractive to me.

So I guess my argument is more about how a person can become attractive over time.

I'm not saying this because I am fat (though Nadi's post kind of made me cry inside). I am saying this because I genuinely think that peoples' minds are a hell of a lot more attractive than how they sell themselves on the outside.

I could chock it up to my being completely distrustful of anything I see on the exterior of a person.

Sex is VERY important, though. But like I said, a person becomes MORE attractive to me if they have a great mind. Even if they're a hideous pile of poo.

I think it's more of a progression for me. I don't really "find people attractive" like a normal person, I guess. I am INCAPABLE of looking at a person and thinking "God, I want to fuck them." I can not even CONCEIVE of the idea before hearing them express theirself. I wonder if this is abnormal.

I'm sorry, Sass. I wasn't referencing you in the least. Obviously, you don't have a problem, you're getting laid all the time. It was just the easiest thing to use--there are a fair number of guys who bitch about girls being fat. =/

You're not abnormal, I'm exactly the same way. I am not saying that I have to be initially attracted to the person's looks; I'm saying that there has to be...well, a spark. A spark that, for me, is driven much more by mind and personality than it is by physical appearance. Most guys don't get that, so simplifying it down to "you can't get off because you're not physically attracted to her" seemed easiest, because that's how they define "spark."

Perhaps that was a bit too simple, though.

Most guys I would classify as "physically attractive" I won't even look at twice, because they're so insufferably boring--or worse, they expect you to admire them all the time. The guys I typically date are average looking; a couple would definitely be called "ugly" by most people here. A repartee, however, can get me worked up without fail.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

It's a sad generalization to say pretty people are boring, and again, I'm pretty sure you or I would get flak for saying it, but I find it true.

You know what's funny? With pretty boys, most seem to fall into the "boring" category, while pretty girls seem to be more spread across the regular spectrum between fascinating and boring. I am infinitely more surprised to find a stunningly attractive man worth conversing with.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by T0X1Qu3

Can I ask a question...

What if you are with someone physically incapable of having sex everyday? You love him to death and he can be really great in bed but he can't have sex all the time due to physical problems. By problems I mean really bad back problems so he's in pain all the time.

What would you do then?

I been with my boyfriend for almost a year and we have had sex less times then I can count on 2 hands and I am still with him because I love him too much...

I choose love over sex anyday but it's one of the hardest things I've done yet.

Well that's different, isn't it? What sex you can have is great. And, I assume, you guys have figured out ways to get around his back problems. Blow jobs and hand jobs were created for a reason, right?

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?