The Middle East spirals out of control!

Originally Posted by Lord Styphon

I am curious why kidnapping Israeli soldiers and holding them hostage has suddenly become popular, though; it doesn't serve any logical purpose and results in sustained Israeli attacks. It certainly doesn't help the Palestinians with their problems.

The only possible reason I can imagine for such actions would be to attempt to use the captives as bartering tools to get their own members out of Israeli prisons.
Of course this is shortsighted foolishness, but I don't think it is reasonable to expect any advanced political understanding from these turds.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I have a question for comparison to this situation:

If, hypothetically, a state milita were to attack another soveriegn nation, should that be considered an act of war?
It seems to me that, for all intents and purposes, the militant branches of Hezbolla are similar to an independent militia.

All the people I have asked this question to so far have unanimously answered "no." :/

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Rock

No, they are not. Mainly because the Hezbollah nowadays isn't just a military organization anymore (it was actually founded to repell the Israeli occupation of southern Lebanon in 1982), but a political one with strong (inofficial) ties to the Lebanese government in Beirut.

Well, just for the sake of argument, say the hypothetical militia is one which flies the Republican banner, and in has had support from and associations in the past with Republican politicians.

Of course this is not a direct 1:1 comparison, but I'm just throwing out related questions that come to mind.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by TonyDaTigger

So if the California National Guard were to start attacking Mexico the US government would not be at fault? Our state Militia can just come in and invade and the rest of the US would not be held accountable?

That is what you are saying.

Well, I'm not saying anything. I'm just asking mostly.
However, I do like to be the counterpoint to many conversations, just for the sake of well-roundedness.

Anyways, although the US government might be held responsible in a way for its citizen's actions, does it necessarily follow that what they did is an act of war on behalf of the entire US government?

EDIT:
By the way, I think the California National Guard is a branch of the US Military.
I am talking about a militia, like the Michigan Militia for example, which is an assemblage of military-minded citizens who are separate from the US government.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by CryHavoc

Horseshit..

Why does Israel have a military force then? It's only essential for a country's government. And since Hamas made government it aint unjustifieable to consider their "militia" part of the government's forces.

Them making office disvalidates any "terrorist" claims, not by definition.
And certainly not by action.

Except that you are comparing the governent controlled military of a soveriegn nation to the military of a ideological, non-governmentally-controlled political faction. Its like saying that Kadima can have a military of its own because the US government does, and Kadima has seats in the Israeli government.

I was speaking idiomatically.

You seem very eager to lessen the importance of Hezbollah's military incursion into Israeli territory to kidnap Israeli soldiers by calling it "a simple exchange." Unfortunately, several Israelis were also killed in the execution of this operation by what you seem to assert is essentially the official military force of Lebanon(and as such are representatives of the nation as a whole).

You seem to be trying to cheapen the impact of this whole affair by calling their intentions a "simple exchange." This is not a child's game of dodgeball or capture-the-flag, where when your teammates are captured, you can do something special to get them out of "jail," and everyone is still friends at the end of the game.

This is life-taking violence and aggression, not just a frivolous game where you have to play by the rules or you get disqualified.

EDIT: Nehmi: Striked out for now, but could you verify that? I had never heard that. It still doesn't change my point.

EDITx2:They performed a cross-border raid. Unstriked-out.
EDITx3:More evidence

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Nehmi

Haha, oh this amuses me. The entire post I was going against is gone. ;_;

Thats okay, you can go against my edits.

Originally Posted by Nehmi

I hate to break it to you, but Hezbollah never entered Israeli territory to kidnap the soldiers, they were in Lebanon.

but...

Originally Posted by Asian Times, your own reference, and possibly the least biased

It all started on July 12 when Israel troops were ambushed on Lebanon's side of the border with Israel. Hezbollah, which commands the Lebanese south, immediately seized on their crossing. They arrested two Israeli soldiers, killed eight Israelis and wounded over 20 in attacks inside Israeli territory.

But, it seems, from this information, that the incursion was provoked by Israeli operations in Lebanon. This is new information to me; however I am sure there is much more to these events which we don't know anyways. Apparently, there were many clashes between Hezbollah and Israeli forces on the border for some time before the event in question.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by han89

The Hezbollah always had soldiers captured and exchanged them for prisonners, and Israel always did. So don't tell me that the exchange was impossible because they used to do it so the war is Israel's fault, they announced it... As easy as that!!!!

You don't seem to understand why this justification doesn't work. At all.

Consider this hypothetical dialogue between two members of a group which regularly kidnaps and ransoms people. Let me know if it makes sense:

1> "So it looks like the cops are trying to capture us again"
2> "Yeah, whats with that? We've always kidnapped someone rich, and gotten a lot of money out of their relatives. A simple exchange. Its a good system: we get money, and they get their relatives back."
1> "I don't understand why the police keep wanting to capture us. Its like we're doing something that other people don't like. WTF?"
2> "What a pain. It would be nice if those darned cops would lay off us for once."

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?