The Middle East spirals out of control!

Originally Posted by Rock

This pretty much is an open war already and its only profiteers are Hezbollah, Hamas and their supporters in Damascus and Teheran.

What kind of nonsense is this? How can they be "the only profiteers"? How can they be "profiteers" in any way???
They wage the war because they hate Israel's presence, no profit gained, physical or psychological, if you were camping in my backyard and i pick a fight with you how the hell can that fight be profitable to me?

Truth is, Israel's refusal to negotiate is correct politics towards that sort of threatening. I wouldn't say it was a dumb move by Hezbullah, they're desperate, what else can they do but act randomly like this?
The bombing is sheer idiocy on Israel's part, like Onyx said, why should the Lebanese suffer for Hezbullah's actions?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I'll assume your last sentence is sarcasm Onyx, neither Iran nor Syria can handle the US as an adversary, let alone have Israel added to the equation.

But you got it all right and i totally agree with you about Hezbullah, they're NOT terrorists per se, they just terrorise Israelis who in my opinion are just getting some of what they deserve. I'm talking military and not innocent civilians, of course.

It's a war and always has been, civilians will be lost, and that stands correct for Lebanese and Israelis (Contrary to what i posted here b4 =D)
It's all a vicious selective process in action in my view, the strong/most fit will survive. Like it or not deep down we are still very much animals... =/

There's nowhere I can't reach.

In a word Bradylama : Yes

They want nothing but Israel away from the Holy Mosque and no abuse.

You are very misinformed if you think otherwise. I speak to you from the middle east and i have been to Palestine.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Bradylama

So long as Hamas maintains its militant wing, they are a terrorist organization.

Horseshit..

Why does Israel have a military force then? It's only essential for a country's government. And since Hamas made government it aint unjustifieable to consider their "militia" part of the government's forces.

Them making office disvalidates any "terrorist" claims, not by definition.
And certainly not by action.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Lord Styphon

Yes it is. The Palestinian government and Hamas are seperate entities, and the military wing of Hamas answers to the Hamas leadership, not the Palestinian government. Similarly, Fatah militias answer to the Fatah leadership, not the Palestinian government.

The Israeli Defense Forces, on the other hand, report to the Israeli government, regardless of whether Labor, Likud or Kadima controls it. The Palestinian Authority security forces, which are distinct from militias answer to the Palestinian government, regardless of whether Fatah or Hamas control it.

That is true, styphon, very true, but that's just a technicality considering that the palestinian government has no (effective) millitary force, so this kinda replaces it in role by , how should i say this; Heirarchy (?)

Quote:

Sinn Fein had had electoral success for decades. Did that make them stop being a terrorist organization, even while their military wing continued to conduct terrorist actions?

Again true, and i concede that i was mistaken saying it like that, what i meant was that by definition a "terrorist" is someone working without 'attachment' to anything of authority and mostly are 'ghost' organizations/systems that have no clear head, not the act of "causing terror to people", because if it was the act of causing terror then Israel most certainly fits that bill.
If you are informed of both sides' work you will probably agree that none of them can't be blamed much, we have more news sources here (Not including the stupidly biased AL-Jazeera or the ignorant CNN) these sources report horrible stuff done by both parties, and seeing as the very presence of Israel is disputable (I know the propaganda demands it be seen as a given, remember they were declared by war and deliberate "take-over", that isn't a good foundation for a country, and that goes for any other country that's done the same) the scales kinda tip towards Hamas being a lot more on the "reaction" based side.

Who the hell said Israel only reacts? Every single daily advance Israel makes is pure provokation, if for examplei flick you in the nose then kick you in the crotch, and you punch me in the face and i scream out loud i'm ALWAYS gonna seem like the good guy. That's what Israel does. You have to be there to judge, and i've been there, Israelis aren't reacting to anything, there's alot of "out-of the blue" scenarios.

Most amazing jew boots

Bradylama you show no backing data that prove your defence, your obvious ly blindly in defence of Israel.

To whomever:
I never said Israel is a terrorist state by the way, they just commit acts that can very well be defined as terrorism, again i speak of experience, what do you have to counter that?

I would only judge Styphon's words as logic in countering what i say, i still hate the bastard though, but he's right, your argument however, brady, is not logical in any way.
How can one give you an example of the everyday disregard of arab rights in israel, wether they are Palestinian or Israeli? It happens, take my word for it.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Brady you idiot, i'm egyptian and i live in egypt, check my posting ips..

And yes i have been there multiple times, you'll just have to take my word for it.

Besides, how the hell can i provide any so-called "umph" when you question my credibility?
Remember if i mention a single incident/experience it can be labeled as an individual act and so i'd have to mention more and more, we're not going to make any situation changing decisions here so the importance of providing THAT solid of an argument isn't justified. Take my word for it or turn your head away and shut up. I won't die if you don't believe me, besides, i have no reason to lie as i am unaffected by either case "winning".

And before you get this into religion i'm an Aethiest, so i'm as neutral as they come.

FELIPE NO

Bradylama continues to show useless contradicting arguments, are you supporting Israel's aggression or not? Are you supporting Israel as a political body or not? Do you know anything about what goes on there beside what you see in ignorant ol' CNN? or Fox news?
Before you ask for us to negate your statements and back up our negation provide anything that validates them. For all anyone knows media is very controllable (I'm not considering conspiracy theories here, just think of someone who runs of infront of a camera holding his eyes and screaming, i bet he's gonna get more sympathy than the guy who hit him, regardless of what made him hit him in the first place, which could be anything the "eye-holder" has done). In that respect i certainly am much more credible by the sheer one-dimensioned advantage of proximity. Let alone personal experience.

I do worship Osiris, stfu.. How come you didn't get the point, why did i say it, Brady? Ask yourself that and answer intelligently.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Edit : Broswer problems, i posted the same shit again here

Double Post:
Don't wave the troll card in my face Brady, that's beyond lame, as long as i am trying to say something objectively i don't think i qualify as a troll. Shove it back where it came from.

Ok here's what lacks logic in my opinion: You considering Israel to be a soveriegn state, your disregard for its inhuman acts, and refusal to admit that Israel is a terrorist nation.

The proximity thing surely does suggest bias on my part, i can only say that it's not there, but i admit i didn't think of it in that way.

Brady i was objecting to your blind-support for Israel, it doesn't seem blind now, but can you really say that 100% of what you or i know is what really happens?
Fuck my experience there, for all anyone knows i'm just another individual, how about the Sabra and Shatila massacres? How about more of the same calibur? Those were totally uncalled for and believe me they happened. So i weasled out of stating what i saw and know, there are reasons i'd rather not dive into that well of memories, my mention of them existing was to say that i speak out of some experience not that i will use them as proof, since even if i did, how can anyone know i'm not making it up?
So with that in mind what happened is what really matters, regardless of who it happened to. Look more into the history of the area and the conflict. Believe me when i say, a country 'growing' into another country like a tumor is enough reason to consider it a paradise, read into the circumstances that "Israel" has risen in. Read into what they've done, then come back and tell me they are 'reactionaries'.

What happened is what matters, not what you or i say, and if you look closely into it you'll discover alot of stuff you didn't know. I don't know a lot of trustworthy resources you can find online, how about reading into what the europeans in Palestine write, those weren't biased before they came into Israel and they have alot to say now.

Whatever it's like i just want people to consider more sources other than CNN, please.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Brady you're making much more sense the more you speak. I actually agree with most of your last post. Interesting.

But for now can i state that both us and Israel failed once or twice at war? We've been on and off for long, so no, Egypt persecuted the Jews due to regional stuff, don't tread on this issue, my (second?) grandfather was a judge in the courts that banished the local jews, if you wanna discuss that issue (about egyptian jews) i don't mind, though, i'm pretty well informed about it , so be warned =D.
But i think we should discuss it elsewhere, how about in chat? this is interesting..

Double Post:
Oh and considering that you just said Palestinians were stabbed in the back, and you admit that palestine did exist, Israel DID grow like a tumor in an already existant nation and land.

Now i'm not saying it is a cancerous tumor (forgive the medical anology(sp?) ) i just think that its very existance's legitimacy is disputable because of the awkward way it "poped" into the world.

BUT i as a person know that they weren't being so fiercely objected-to and hated because they existed, no, it's all because of the Aqsa, and no matter how silly that may sound look at the religious agendas (i mean plans, correct me if i used the wrong term) most Zionists have it sure seems they are walking in that direction.

Jews have a dream of the promised land; it's written as : from River Nile to River Furat (Euphrates). (1).
The third temple shall be constructed where the Aqsa mosque stands(2)

Are you familiar with the diggings and tunnels being done under Al Aqsa? Let's just ignore the regional conflicts for a moment and consider how infuriated you would be (if you were religious) if someone was to dig tunnels under the Vatikan in such a manner that when all tunnels are complete, the whole structure would collaps at even a small bomb dropped near?
That's the biggest thing, here's one more, settlements.. I've stood there, 20 metres away while the bastards were dozering down a house while pulling everyone inside to the outside. Now that's the single incident i saw, watch the news and you'll see hundreds more, how would you like having your house mowed down ten minutes after you woke up, right before breakfast? What are they supposed to do, not blow them all up?
I doubt it, considering that one guy who destroyed a whole town with an armoured dozer and everyone here aplauded him (Search for the thread). It's easy to ask people to 'pipe down' when you're sitting on your easy chair typing. Were it the opposite i bet anyone would do alot worse, then some idiots beautifully label them as terrorists and bam, every one on the Internet plays along.. Wow, what horrendous acts of terrorism to fight back.

Now you all know there's a big Zionist lobby in the US, right?
Ok ponder this, points (1) and (2) up there add up with the Iraqi invasion don't they? After all the river's in Iraq. Oh but LOOK! [color=red]It also goes through Syria[/b] and turkey. Wow, consider the threats the US keeps making to Syria (Which remind me very much of Iraq's past)..

Anyone else see a silly connection here?

It would be insanely idiotic to ignore this correlation, it's no proof, i admit, and i hate conspiracy theory, but this fits too well to be just a coincidence.

Now tell me, if you think they're moving along with that plan, wouldn't the Aqsa being in jeopardy shine much more? If jews was promised a home, don't you think they will be given a proper one, given that they were already situated where they wanted to? They want it in full, they want the 'whole deal' if you will. Now in my opinion if this goes on to get more and more suspicious that makes them my enemy, i don't wanna keep saying that they're just defending themselves when all i see is advancement.

I think that makes enough sense for us to be more than doubtful of Israel's real intentions.

Remember what i said about plowing down homes, that's enough reason to retaliate, do you know that Hamas is mostly people who've eaten shit because of Israel, and so's Hezbullah? Did you know that most bombers aren't rerlated to any organization and are just retaliating for such horrors?

I can't say much more, if that doesn't make sense i don't know what will.

Double Post:
More :

People in prisons (The reason the kidnappings were made in the first place) are there for no other reason but to break them before they get any chance to avenge themselves for the humiliation they got. That still makes Israelis the bad guys in my book.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Nile to Furat, soluzar, it still hasn't been, do you see the third temple?
No.
Do you see a country spanning from Nile to Euphrates called Israel?
No.

The goals have yet to be fulfilled. At least as far as Zionists are concerned.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Very reliable sources, Lama, my cousin is one of them. He's been out for 3 years now, you would never believe the horrors they face in those prisons. But to be fair the treatment inside isn't as bad as the worst countries in the world, the reason he got in there is the main concern, he did nothing except protest with his friends against his friend's house being torn down.
That's why it seems like the only example i state, it's cuz it's one of the most severe things i witnessed personally or was told about directly. It really pisses me off, and really warrants me going crazy because of it.

Silly as my conspiracy theory may sound, you'd be surprised at what the camp david peace treaty contained to support my claims, besides, since when did Israel respect any pact or treaty?

The only reason they respect theirs with us is that Egypt isn't like Syria or Lebanon, we have (Well, had) a much harder and more severe policy when it comes to foriegn aggression, you can say we got touchy because of the multiple take-overs, you should read into the '73 war's complications to get an idea of what can be done with so little supplies/equipment and money, as long as an egyptian's involved. Yes of that i'm very proud.

That's not to say our treaty with Israel's safe, anytime the Israelis need to make a move they'll break it just like that, for now it gives them time to work on other plans, your argument that their negativity towards us is against my claim of a "master plan" is thus negated. Time will tell, them not doing anything is no proof they will not.

Most amazing jew boots

Originally Posted by Rock

So are you suggesting we should watch Fox News instead? Keep in mind that CNN is one of the rather liberal networks in the U.S. and I've found their reporting to be neutral, fair and honest.

I don't know, even Al Jazeera is too biased to be trusted.

The best practice would be to view whatever news you're interested in from multiple main-stream sources (With different biases) so you can at least gather whatever's common to all of them and you'd end up with at least a base of (somewhat) certains.

I was speaking idiomatically.

The part about the Holocaust is very true.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Yes Brady, read about the Zionist lobby and you will see it's very well plausible.

Look at the contradictions : Most of the US officials support bombing Lebanon and Hillary Skank Clinton announced a lame "We will stick by Israel" Sure who the hell is she to count, but that reflects a politically biased view from a country that supposedly keeps urging others like Hamas and Iran to "Control themselves" when stuff much more outrageous is done against them.

Not just the 'conspiracy' Bradylama, the sheer stupidity of weighing with two scales that occurs all the time. Do you think it's the free US's fault, or the politicians with strong jewish and/or Zionist biases?

Furthermore, who is the *ahem* that removed my Signature? It was 46 KB, i shrunk it, now what's the problem??

Edit : 48 KB, that is, what the hell, that's still under 50 KB...

Edited again for niceness's sake.

FELIPE NO

I'd like to think that Bin Laden is using a Che Guevara school of thought when he acted upon being angered by the situation in Israel and how the US supports her no matter what. I still think that coming from the view of "Every war must have its casualties" he wasn't so bad doing what he did afterall. If only for the sake of those whose lives were crushed by Israel's inhuman acts.
You might have a good background about Guevara's principles so review that before you overrule this possibility.


I see that somehow your stance has shifted a bit, at least from what i originally thought you were thinking, which is a good thing because open-mindedness is always a plus.

Don't consider the Nile to Euphrates thing impossible. You said yourself it would provoke many a party, too many for a clean accomplishment, and here my friend is where Israelis (at least dedicated ones) are very good.
The real challenge is for them to avoid all those obstacles and 'landmines' if you will, and still reach whatever goal they want.
The fact that they grow closer to it by such acts as the Iraq war without them being directly the reason is a good thing in that respect. No fingers pointed, (barely-)enough reasons to warrant war and the result would still be an easier target (Iraqi land). This sounds all crazy but you should read into Zionist views to make sure of the "Nile to Euphrates" part. It's going too conveniently and the Arabs are the only ones who keep shouting conspiracy, why? Because we read into Zionist beliefs, or rather; Jewish beliefs. It's crazy, but it's what they want, and it's all going too conveniently to ignore. They will take their time with it, but never forget about it. Even if they didn't start the war, who can underestimate the power of suggestion? It's enough for a moron like Bush that one would keep whispering "they'll get america with WMDs" for him to go nuts and shout "OMG they WILL, i must destroy Iraq!".
He might be a cog in that wheel without even knowing, this only serves to make it a bit closer to ponder that's all.

I said MIGHT, note that. After all, what do i know? I'm just a random guy online, i'm serious, there might be millions of variables involved that i don't know about, and there probably is.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Nah, not everything needs manpower, Styphon. You'd be surprised at what people would do to keep their lives. A simple weapon advantage could easily make that possible, let alone the fact that it won't be just Israel's occupants doing the fighting.

Besides religious stuff is always rediculously impossible, yet some idiots will fight against all odds to accomplish them (I love the word "idiots", fits everywhere) ..

Jam it back in, in the dark.

True Brady, regardless of what may be said about the strike, they should back off now, but i think they won't and will want to use this opertunity to lay their terms..

There's nowhere I can't reach.

The power of suggestion, Onyx, not direct sending, remember that bush's a moron, it might add up.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

That was uncalled for, Brady, and kids writing on weapons sure is a disturbing thing, no matter what they write.

Sup Mid-East : Total war...

Yeah i bet they'd make one, what with all the warsims about Iraq and the likes..

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?