The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion

Originally Posted by Bradylama

Also, as an aside, how exactly did Vampire suck? Obvious puns aside, I'd love to hear what your thoughts are, because at the present, not only does your statement lack any merit to the discussion at hand, but it is in no way an argument.

Whew, long post. Anyway, Masquerades was littered with game destroying bugs that the official patches never rectified. Without user fixes the game wouldn't have even really been playable start to finish. My point is, really, at least Oblivion isn't like that. I'll get to the rest later since I'm a little busy on the phone and just wanted to make sure you understood that point. I'll add more in a little while.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by NES Oldskooler

Take a similar combat situation, only we're now playing a geriatric wizard. He has a low strength, and has overall much less experience in weapons than our young hero. He rolls a die to attack the same goblin and gets a 16. Even though his attack bonus has degenerated to -5 in his old age, the attack is still enough to hit the goblin.

This is my main issue with dice rolling. In my opinion, a pathetic old man with little combat experience should not be able to fight on the same ground as a trained fighter in any situation. Yeah, I know the fighter will obviously have more health, be able to swing harder, and on average will have more hits because of his attack bonus. The fact remains, though, that depending on how the dice roll, the old wizard could potentially beat him in a one on one sword fight.

To be fair, in a game like Baldur's Gate this would never happen. Multi/duel classing asside (which can complicate matters a little bit) -- Wizards/Sorcerers can only be "proficient" in their weapon styles (ever) while a vanilla fighter could go all the way to grand mastery right off the bat. Not to mention the higher hp rolls and starting hp/available equipment. Even completely naked with both characters wielding daggers or quarterstaves the mage character would never be able to kill the fighter before he explodes the mage into tiny little chunks of flesh, likely from a overkill critical hit. My point is that you overexaggerated a bit.

In a game like Oblivion this is a little more complicated, same for morrowind. But realistically, without power gaming it is the same situation. It simply isn't chosen right off the bat in a character creation screen... Instead you decide rather you want to be a mage or a fighter with the actions you choose in battle. I concede, though, that in both these games with a little effort a mage and warrior has little distinction but that isn't really an advantage for a mage, since the warrior could easily do the reverse and learn magic. Still, it isn't a problem with die rolls, which is what you were insinuating but rather an issue with the way some games are set up. Starting at a higher level than 1 (6/6 or 8 in BG2 for example) is a nice way to try and offset that, though. I guess.

Masquerades has some pretty annoying issues even with user-fixes BTW. The game has a frustrating memory leak, so if you don't have good ram (gig minimum, even with 1.5 if I play for more than 2 hours straight the game gets stuttery) I'd avoid the game until you get a decent upgrade. Arcanum is pretty good, though, and doesn't have too many issues. Combat is severely unbalanced, though. Harm mage can solo through everything without a sweat. There isn't much need for any other magic, or much incentive to play tech when you realize harm is all you need to own everything in the game.

I take it based on bradylama's points, too, that he has an argument against most RPGs being wrongfully branded and not really just issues with Oblivion being a "bad game". I don't really care to argue something like that because it's just too broad a subject. I think something of that calibur deserves it's own thread, rather than be minorly debated here in a thread where it's almost off-topic.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

It's an ATI issue. I'm sure somewhere down the line there will be a driver fix for it. Self Shadows are pretty ugly in this game anyway, though, and even using an NVIDIA card I leave them disabled.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Bradylama

Point granted on Masquerades. I never said it was perfect in terms of build, but the assessment that it sucked cut deep seeing as how much fun I had with it compared to any other "RPG" that has been released in the past 3 years.

Oh no, I never meant to insinuate the game wasn't good. It was fantastic, actually, which was all the more reason I was so disappointed with how poorly optimized it was. You'd think after seeing how stable the source engine was in HL2 that you'd get the same relatively smooth experience from Masquerades but reality can be quite harsh. Outside of the terrible engine problems the game was definitely among the best I've played in a long time, though. I guess I should have been a little more specific during my initial post.

Originally Posted by Bradylama

I also had a problem with the retarded level cap. I understand the need for it, since it keeps the player from becoming untouchable. My issue with it, however, is that it kept your NPCs from levelling up as well, which eliminated the incentive for completing quests outside of its effect on faction and community endings. (another problem with Oblivion's Skill-based system, in that the absence of any ending means that there is no incentive for quest completion outside of baubles and coins)

I hear you. I removed the level cap but ultimately it didn't help. It only served to unbalance the game even further. The Dredge really sucks, too, since you go there long before the end of the game and if you spend too much time clearing it out you'll be so overleveled you may lose the desire to finish the game when you finally get out. The only real option is to read a walkthrough about finding the secret passage to completely skip it over if you want any sort of challenge out of the game whatsoever from that point forward, heh. I do usually opt to ignore magic when I replay these days. Tech is far cooler IMO and it's a shame it is so desperately overshadowed by magic.

Originally Posted by Bradylama

I don't think talking about this type of stuff is off-topic, since I think the design methods of Bethesda as shown in Oblivion will impact their development of Fallout 3. (outlook not so good) If an RPG moderator disagrees, though, then I won't complain.

I'll take your word on it, then. It isn't as if this topic is getting much attention outside of us anyway.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

http://www.elderscrolls.com/download...atchnotes5.htm

I was kind of hoping it would fix some of the other more blatant issues but it's a start.

FELIPE NO

No, it's just that Oblivion looks uglier than barebones Morrowind on the lowest details and that's pretty fucking sad. Watching my friend play, with tweaked settings to disable lighting and all that shit, it is maddening.

HDR and Bloom I can understand. Shadows too. But when you have to literally disable EVERYTHING then I just don't see the point in playing the game. Of course, if you still enjoy it, then power to you but I know I could never play a game where everything was at it's lowest and it STILL lagged. That's just a kick in the balls right there.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Well, to be honest; I wish I could think like that. I am just being honest by saying that I can't.

If a game dips to 15fps for me, in pretty much any circumstance, I either lower the settings or uninstall the game. The only time it's ever acceptable is during an FPS if the screen is literally filled with explosions and it quickly shoots back up. I know that sounds a little spoiled, but I do pay good money (that I earn) to keep my PC in decent shape and as such I expect good/tolerable performance out of my games.

Oblivion is a very taxing game anyway, though, and I can't play at full settings, most people can't. Which is why I said it's fine to lower settings. (in any game, really) Just, it isn't fine if something is at the bare minimum side of the spectrum and still lags like you have the settings cranked all the way up. That's usually when you know it's time to upgrade or time to take the game back. I'll admit it matters a lot less in a game like Oblivion than it does in twitch reflex games like FPS'ers though; and I'll also admit that different frame rates are tolerable to different people.

Jam it back in, in the dark.