The Immigration Protests

It's nice to see this something that most of us regardless of general political affiliation actually agree on for once. It makes no sense whatsoever implement the guest worker program as it would just encourage more people coming over knowing they could get away with it. And it makes even less sense to not nail company's that utilize illegal workers to straight to the fucking ground. Because really everyone's getting fucked if it's allowed.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I think for 8 dollars an hour you'd be surprised how many non immigrants would go for it. It's more that it doesn't even come up as most businesses that can get away with it would rather pay an illegal immigrant to do it for 3 dollars an hour instead. You've obviously never been poor if you think $8.00 an hour is not even worth looking at.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Devo

That's why each state or even region has it's own minimum wage.

Fair enough even just in Sante Fe which is roughly an hours drive away from here the minimum is I think $7.50. I was under the impression though that the minimum wage was $5.15 in the majority of places which would put $8.00 and hour at being fairly high up for most unskilled workers.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I want to see them start sending the police through the protestors demanding proof of citisenship or green cards. I know no one is goign to be willing to give that politicly suicidal order but it'd be really entertaining and if they aren't legally allowed to be here then they shouldn't be protesting part of a political process they have no right to have a say in.


And Igod82 really your posts are an even bigger clusterfuck than mine and are outright painfull to read through as is. Even if your points had merit no one is going to give you even a shred of credit as long as you type that way.


This should really be simple they have no right to be here and they have no right to have a say in any of this. And the only possible reason for not wanting a wall built on the border is wanting to continue to make it easy for people to come here illegally so it's jut condoning criminal activity. I'm not sure how this making it a felony thing is supposed to work though are they planning to jail them and then kick them which makes no sense or is it just blowing hot air?

Maybe they do need to change the way legal immigration works so as to make it a more reasonable process but that doesn't justify skipping it entirely. And when they do come here they need to make it a priority to learn at least enough english for basic comunication. I'm not going to go to germany and then get a job there hoping that the majority of people I'll deal with can speak english and yet that's exactly what they do. There are entire sections of the town I live in that you can't order a burger without knowing spanish and that's unnacceptable. They need to outright require all businesses deal only in english and I guarantee that when it's learn it or not function in society they'll figure it out pretty damn quick.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Gumby

CetteHamsterLa: They just need to declare English as our national language.

As much as I hate to take the conservative asshole side on an issue I agree.

Double Post:

Originally Posted by gukarma

Do you know your own history? Why did people not establish a national language?

To be honest I am fuzzy on why we didn't as we were still of primarily english stock as of the founding of the nation. I'd be honestly interested to learn why though.

Originally Posted by gukarma

They are fucking human beings who live and help build this country from day to day. Don't be a fucking monster.

Human beings who are flaunting their own criminal actions in the public political forum. If they didn't want the attention they shouldn't have gathered in mass screaming in spanish about something that's not theirs to comment on. If I'm I'm protesting the illegality of pot would they be monsters for taking drug sniffing dogs through the crowd?

And I've never claimed to be terribly coherent.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by gukarma

I think you should read up on your own history, on both of your concerns.

http://www.wikipedia.org/

That should be a good start. I think Styphon and other people who know American history would agree.

It's not that I believe there is no sense to your side, it is that you have none of it whatsoever.

I'm well aware of our history overall just that minor point of it was something I'd never picked up along the way as it honestly never occurred to me to check before.

What that has to do with me being a monster for saying the laws should be enforced even on large obvious groups eludes me perhaps you can explain? And you claiming someone has no sense has a rather hollow ring to it.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Honestly living in new Mexico I'd say it's pretty damn intrusive. Doubly so if you're competing with them for the lowest income job market which I am. Hell I'd take some of the cleaning jobs they have down here if it wasn't for the fact that they don't hire people who can actually demand minimum wage and I wouldn't be able to speak with my coworkers as the majority of them only speak spanish. Hell in area's of town you can't even communicate with people behind the counter in the majority of business's.

FELIPE NO

ESL classes are admittedly a good idea but from what I've come to understand the ones in place are pretty ineffectual. Now admittedly I haven't been through the school system here so I'm lacking first hand experience. It's my fiancee that's from here but she's explained some basics of it anyway. Apparently as is they teach the classes with english trying to be pushed on them fo the first three years or so and then just kind of dump them in with everyone else after that regardless of progress. And when they come from a household/neighborhood that speaks entirely spanish that really doesn't cut it.

I mean hell I had that long in spanish when I was going through school and due to having no need to use it anywhere around me I admittedly ignored it and didn't learn a damn thing same thing for them. When you see no need for it and especially when your parents also see no need for it then something's not likely to be much of a priority. Then you add in the whole wealth distribution to school's making it so the area's where large numbers of spanish speakers live have much worse educations overall doubly so in the english department do to them almost universally being the lowest income area's.

I mean probably making sure everyone knows at least the basics of spanish and english from school is ideal but it's a whole other can of worms getting the school system to be even vaguely effective at it. Also think of how half assed it would be gone about in area's that see little need when even the places that desperately need it now have it completely fucked up.

Also that just may be New Mexico's problem with it but i have a hunch that in most area's with a high spanish speaking populations at least some of the same issues pop up.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

So the real question there is are they house cleaners and painters who can speak enough english to be understood? If yes then I think we can conclude that Boston has it's shit together in this regard.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I'd say it's more likely lazyness and being used to not having to learn other languages as generally in the U.S. you can go a couple hundred miles in any direction and still be speaking the same language as everyone else. In Europe not so much so it's more it's much more important to their day to day lives to know several languages. I'd say outside of some border states it's completely unnecesary here.

And making it offical would make it much easier to force the issue where as at the moment people can still throw out the old "well it's not the offical language so we don't have to learn it" arguement. It'd if nothing else clear up a lot of the ambiguity about the issue.

There's nowhere I can't reach.