Research suggests men are clueless when it comes to women.

To: Women
From: Men

Subject: If you like us

Body: Dear Women, if you like us and want to date / fuck us, say so. Be blunt, be obvious, Be DIRECT. Your chances of success rise by an average of 75%*

Sincerely,
Men.

*Individual results may vary

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Originally Posted by Sassafrass

Why should we cater to your needs when other men make an actual effort to communicate with us?

It goes both ways: Men don't get the 'sublte' hints women often do, like twirling their hair or scooching closer or whatever else you wanna give as an example, while women aren't forward enough. I can't tell you how many times I've been confused if a woman is flirting with me or just being friendly. There needs to be a greater sense of shared communication standards across the sexes.

When you say "those men who 'make an effort' ", therein lies the problem: No one should have to make 'an effort' to communicate. Communication is a fundamental skill which I think should be something that is done freely, easily, and at will. Now there's an important distinction however: Communication in and of itself should be something that anyone can do, however Flirting or Showing interest, I think DOES require effort on both parts, because
of your specific intentions. However as I said above: Men don't get the small clues given to them, and women don't give clear signs of their interest... So I guess in a way, everyone needs to make an effort,

just not in basic Communication.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Denicalis

Yes they fucking DO. YOU just can't read them.

Because they are not clear, hence my point.

Quote:

If you can master how to play Donkey Kong Country, you can learn how to play a woman

Using hand eye coordination and judging where the Bananas are located in a level has NOTHING in common with 'playing' a woman. They are entirely different 'games'. Seducing a woman is a fine art, donkey kong is a juvenile video-game.

Granted, I get the basic analogy you're trying to make (That if given time and practice you will become better at a skill and that it can apply to any sort of activity, video-games or getting women), but that above is a very poor example. No, I can't think of a better one right now before you ask.

Also, while reading the rest of your response, I realized my own problem as to why I am not very successful: I think too much about how I appear in her eyes, about how she views me. I know this is the problem and you'd think If I knew my problem I could overcome it, but Doing something is a lot different then talking about it.

Quote:

Now go away and stop being a douche bag. All of you.

Do as I say, not as I do?

Take a breather Deni, you'll pop a vein being so RAGE in this thread.

----

A small note: I had to rewrite this about 5 different times and I'm getting a headache from trying to cover all the angles of replying to possible responses to my own replies.

Well to make it simple then: I think men should try and understand the subtle signs given in flirting, and women should try and be more direct. I mean, hell, what's so bad about a woman approaching a guy first sometimes?

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

Ever think that the problem isn't necessarily them, but yourself? Maybe?

I knew I'd get something like this in response, but I honestly can't think of a witty snappy comeback to that kind of question. I do see my own shortcomings as a part of the problem, but any response I expect people to likely pigeon hole it down to either SHE'S the problem 100% or I'M the problem 100%, and I don't think that's necessarily entirely true. I've made errors before and I'm sure they have too. After all we are but merely human.

Quote:

I can't believe you just typed a whole paragraph in regards to the implication Deni made.

Seducing a woman is NOT a fucking fine art. Jesus CHRIST, where are you getting these crazy ideas. TALK TO HER. That's about as COMPLICATED AS IT GETS!

I didn't mean fine art as in a painting or classical music. It was a way to say that compared to the basic skills necessary to play a video game, romancing a woman is a lot more involved and requires a delicate touch, COMPARED to a video game it is LIKE a fine art. Maybe I should have used a different metaphor.

On the second part: You say just Talk to her huh? Well... I've been 'talking' to several women for a while now, but given the lack of intimacy and continued friendly relations (with some flirting here and there), I'm probably saying the wrong thing, aha ha. Ehh but pay it no matter, I get your point. I need to stop over thinking the situation, along with...

Quote:

You need to be confident, and I think that's your major fuck up right there.

I can't really argue against that.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by a lucca

This nailed it. You guys are making excuses for your ignorance and incompetence, while getting defensive because someone noticed you're not all that good with women. No one thinks you're a bad person because you haven't yet learned how to be comfortable around women, but at the same time, no one wants to coddle your ass here because that comfort zone of blaming the woman for your incompetence with them is what's holding you back.

Look here. Dark Nation, the reason why people blame you instead of the woman is because you said yourself that you've tried to make it with several broads but you haven't been successful with any. Occam's razor says something's wrong with your approach, not that each one of these disparate women are... I'm not even sure what you're suggesting that they are. Oblivious? Kindly not interested in you?

When Sass talks about the 'friend zone', she's not saying you can't make it with a friend, but that you haven't shown this broad that you're interested in her as anything more than a friend. Maybe you should try pushing it harder than you have currently. Being comfortable around women, getting them interested in you as a person is only the first step, and just mastering that one step won't get you anything other than friends.

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, I JUST GOT TOLD!

Ahh but jokes aside I'm glad for your and Sass's insights, because as much as I'd hate to admit, I only seem to have peripheral vision when it comes to seeing the obvious. Perhaps I am the oblivious one. I've taken note and tried to start applying this advice I've been given, but it will take time, and surely more... I mean... I'll need to have a CLEARER observation on things, and not just romantic pursuits either.

Exciting times.

I was speaking idiomatically.