For or against?

So why was my post deleted? It was a cynical argument, yeah, but still an argument.

I don't see why my contribution to this thread warrants deletion while this

Quote:

SEE DEVO IS A SANE PERSON!!! WHY CAN'T ALL THE GUN NUTS UNDERSTAND THAT?!?

is considered to be fine.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I'm still going by the logic that less guns mean less crime. How can you even refute this? I mean, criminals aren't exactly born as criminals and you can't really predict who becomes a criminal. It might just as well be this Gumby person who claims he needs a shitload of guns to "protect himself".

What kind of a stupid argument is saying that "criminals" will be getting their guns illegally nonetheless!? I'm willing to bet that most of these killings have been carried out with legally purchased and owned weaponry.

With more guns being publically available, the probability of abuse is much higher than in a society with strict gun control.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Gumby

I suggest you do some research before you come back, you seem to be rather misinformed.

Then how about you inform me, then? Honestly, I'd like to see some facts presented to this discussion and solid proof that legally purchased and owned guns would never be used for murder.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Dick Cheney shoots his second. Why lie.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

I like how in the wonderful world of pro-firearm, law-abiding citizens are law-abiding citizens and criminals are criminals.

[capslock]THE WORLD IS NOT THAT SIMPLE, FOLKS.[/capslock]

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Bradylama

From a legal standpoint, it is that simple. If you break a law, you're a criminal. I'm fairly sure I break the law every day in some way or another, however the argument in the context of Gun Control refers to people that adhere to gun code laws, and not necessarily the speed limit, or drug usage, or internet piracy, or whatever other laws people break every day.

That's totally not what I meant to imply in my post.

I was criticizing the argument that "law-abiding citizens" should have a right to bear firearms. Of course, every criminal was a law-abiding citizen before he became a criminal. Because frankly, if a firearm is used to inflict lethal injury, it's usually a crime; thus the perpetrator becomes a criminal. I might also add that "criminals" are usually kept in prisons and don't even have a chance to fire a gun in the first place.

However, this seems to be a concept unfamiliar with people living in a black and white world with no color inbetween.

"Just hand out guns to us fine folks. Only a criminal would abuse a gun." -__-

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell

Americans have a much more violent culture than most European countries

Quoted for falsehood.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Rikimaru

You know that King George is not only the threat, and that is not only the reason why second amendment was created. Let me emphasize the third point: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State ..."

How is this a reason at all? Should the average joe be allowed to carry a gun because of this Militia thing you're talking about!?

Originally Posted by Rikimaru

If you do not have any weapons, how can you and your state fight against the big federal government?

It's happening in France as we speak - well, these people aren't exactly fighting a war, but they're actually doing a good job at bringing their message across and putting the government under considerable pressure - without guns.

To be honest, I don't see a lot of Americans protesting against their government. It's just not patriotic. You have no need for guns.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Night Phoenix

How does me having the right to own a firearm put everyone in danger?

Because people get shot by firearms.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

There's no need for a connection. People get shot by firearms. It's a simple fact nobody can deny.

Why should anyone have the right to have tanks? People get killed by tanks.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

See, the problem I'm having with this argument is the concept of a "law-abiding citizen". I've already elaborated on it in this thread. There's no common definition of a "law-abiding citizen" and nobody can tell a criminal from a law-abiding citizen before they have actually committed a crime. This is why I think nobody should be allowed to have such a weapon in the first place. I think the chances of abuse outweigh the positive aspects of having a gun by far. Besides, I think a positive aspect can only be achieved with a gun that's never actually fired.

I don't know how you feel about this, but I just couldn't entrust a person with a gun just because they claim to be "law-abiding citizens". There is no scientific way to even prove this, so you're basically argueing to trust random with deadly weapons. I'm just not comfortable with that and will probably never understand where this trust comes from given the relatively high amount of homicides that involve firearms legally purchased by your a law-abiding citizen.

As an example, I wouldn't want to live in a neighbourhood with the thought of guns being stored in every household - no matter how peaceful and trustful this neighbourhood might be. I prefer to be relatively certain that the place I'm living in is just free of guns. Maybe it's just a matter of trust and I don't feel like taking unnecessary risks.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I have to admit, though, that comparing these numbers isn't the ultimate solution. It's been pointed out that there are countries with widespread gun ownership and incredibly low firearm homicide rates (Switzerland, Norway).

On the other hand, the overwhelming majority of countries with strict gun control also have very low (firearm) homicide rates (Germany, England, Japan). It would be foolish to claim that there is no correlation between the two.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?