The Middle East spirals out of control!

Israel is in a no-win situation. They blow up Lebanese infastructure and Hezbollah laughs itself to death because none of that infastructure belongs to the largely poor Lebanese that support Hezbollah. This war is bloody, but not enough to make a difference. There's also one little problem; Israel cares about casualties and Hezbollah does not. Hezbollah being made up of mostly poor Shi'ite Muslims who love the idea of martyrdom. I would bring up the difference in population demographics, but at this point it hardly matters. Needless to say, Israel is on the wrong side of demographics.

Last but not least; If Israel launches a full-fledged invasion of Southern Lebanon they're probably walking into a trap Hezbollah has set. Hezbollah has had about six years to fully entrench themselves politically and militarily in Lebanon. I doubt very much they haven't prepared for such a invasion scenario since Israel withdrew in 2000.

Meanwhile, there's trouble in Gaza. So this is a two-front proxy war. Two front wars are never fun for the nation-state stuck fighting them. Iran must be having a good time though.

It benefits nobody to stop the fighting at this point so this should provide "news" infotainment throughout the summer and much of the fall.

Originally Posted by Onyx

Obviously, you have little understanding of the history of your own country. If the Arabs complain that the house you're living in sits on their land...they're right. Because your country was founded by stealing land from people. So yeah, if you're going to complain about Arabs trying to get their land back, just remember that.

That's the pot calling the kettle black. I don't hear you saying we should give back the United States to the natives. Genocide helped pay your mortgage dude. In that regard Israel has shown considerable restraint in the face of adversity.

I'd also like to hear which tribe/group/country you think didn't get "their" land by wiping out or enslaving the current occupiers.

Originally Posted by Onyx

Unfortunately, Israel is not in a position where it is the innocent bystander "doing nothing." Israel CAN do something, and it could've for the last 20 years. Give back Lebanese land and release Lebanese prisoners. And then, as I said before, if Hezbollah still decided to attack, then I don't think the "rest of the world" would hold it against Israel to go to war.

Where does thinking along this line stop? So Israel gives back Lebanese land and prisoners. Then what? Palestinian land? So basically the state of Israel either no longer exists, or is just a strip of land under constant bombardment. Think about it from their prespective. Neither option is really viable because if an inch is given, a yard is taken. Issues like these rarely, if ever end well in the course of history being made. The settlers usually completely wipe out the natives. I'm hard pressed to name an instance where it wasn't like that.

Maybe in a Disney movie.

Originally Posted by Wesker

The Lebanese Christians do not support Hezbollah, neither do the Druse,
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...d/4094118.html

The fact that a handful of Christian Lebanese leaders have voiced support of hezbollah is more indicative of a fear of Hezbollah or Syrian retaliation than of anger aginst israel.

I have trouble believing articles like that.... here's why. This is not anything resembling a stable country we're talking about. This is Lebanon. Some of the most brutal acts inflicted upon the Lebanese Christians has been perpetrated by...... Lebanese Christians. Do you think that both sides (both being Christian) do not have some scores to settle with each other? Lebanon has been one big clusterfuck of a country for the last thirty years or so.

Perhaps in Southern Lebanon a majority of Christian groups do support Hezbollah and it's actions. Maybe in Northern Lebanon a majority of Christian groups do not. OVerall it's impossible to say given the circumstances.

(edit)
To be fair the one part of the article I can believe is where the Lebanese caught in this clusterfuck of a country wants the hell out. So would I if I found myself in the same situation.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Onyx

Where in that post did I say that the Arabs should kick all of the Israelis off their land? I was in no means advocating that.

It's implied. It's not like Southwest Asia is going to wake up tomorrow and decide to get along. Neither side will be appeased no matter how much the other side sacrafices. So the fighting shall continue.

Any chance of moderation was thrown out the window a long time ago.

Originally Posted by Onyx

And how do you define "restraint?" To me, if Israel was using so-called "restraint," then it would be taking better measures to ensure that so many civilians aren't dying. It also wouldn't be bombing civilian infrastructures so that civilians couldn't leave the country. Is this the restraint pro-Israel people talk about?

In modern warfare the side that is technology superior typically inflicts more casualties. There's no way around that. But as I've said; it doesn't matter because it won't effect the outcome.

Originally Posted by Onyx

Really? Because "caring" about casualties and trying to prevent them are two different things. Anybody can "care" about casualties. The bottom line is that Israel is not taking the measures that it should to avoid these casualties. Therefore, it's hard to distinguish between them and Hezbollah.

What else would you like them to do? I've already read about some ludacris measures so far. For instance Israeli Military Intelligence calling people in their homes to let them know in a hour they're going to bomb the building these people are living in. So they should leave.

This seems almost too crazy to be true. It is not a historical precedant though. Bottom line, they care enough to warn the people they are bombing. Not just about their own dead.

Originally Posted by Onyx

An inch given is a yard taken, indeed, but when Israel takes a whole football field to begin with, you can't exactly blame Arabs for being mad, can you? I mean, you and I probably wouldn't be very happy if China invaded our country and suppressed our culture, would you? Hezbollah has done none of this.

I don't blame anybody.... well except the British and perhaps the French imperialists who carved up Southwest Asia after the end of World War I. After all, everybody is just taking what they were promised. But they are long dead. The problems they have caused are not.

Your invasion analogy isn't even close to what's being played out.

Originally Posted by Onyx

In regards to your comments about "natives" never making history, that happens because the governments keep it that way. Israel is no different in that sense. But once again, that doesn't make it right.

Neither side is going to be right. Because the so called "natives" of the time probably have their own genocidal streaks to their credit. That's largely how civilization has played itself out.

There's nowhere I can't reach.