What is it about politics that makes people go insane?

Nationalism and ideology make's any political issue a very touchy one.

Ideology being a person's particular view on morals/beliefs. This ties in closely with religion. People don't like having their beliefs or preception of reality challenged. Why? The short answer is because they're shallow. Everybody is to a certain extent. If you deny this, you're pretty much proving that you lack any self-reflective depth. The long answer is it upsets their own little world where they are the central figure. While throwing into question everything they know, but more importantly everything they think they know.

Nationalism is something that I'd define as overactive pride in one's country/state. It's a self-absorbed notion that "our" country is better then everyone elses. Everybody has heard the phrase "God bless America". If this isn't a sign or overactive pride or arrogance I don't know what is.

Both of these are a derivative issue of moral relativity, and how each seperated group/culture/civilization(s) view their way as "the right way", and so everyone else by default is/are doing something wrong. The bottom line is that I believe that human beings are selfish and self-absorbed. Thus, so are nation-states in their domestic/foreign policies.

There are certain American specific examples I could name; The vilification of the political opposition, and how most Americans view their opposition as the harbinger of doom for their particular way of life. But I wanted to speak as general as possible, and not trash Republicans/Democrats by specifically bringing up issues. Plus, I do enough of that as it is.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by loyalist

But Watts, don't you see that your mere definition of terms in describing politics can lead to untold amounts of debate? don't sound so sure of yourself.

Sure, I don't have a problem with that though. It just leads to the possibility of more people sounding off with their opinions and ideas. The only problem I can see then is the slight problem that this might lead to long and drawn out debate which exposes flaws in my thinking.

Clarifying the matter though, I was not defining politics. That would take much more brainpower then I think I'm capable of. I was just listing two major issues on how/why politics get's nasty. As for sounding sure of myself, my ideas work for me. Nobody else really has to buy into them to make them work. They're valid to meeee, so that's enough. I drink the 'kool aid' of my own making.

Originally Posted by loyalist

Actually, nationalism is more or less defined by poltiics textbooks and courses as a sort of sense of belonging with a group of other individuals who share common traits such as language, culture, philosophy, religion, ehtnicity, race, et cetera and who wish to have some sort of self-determination.

The original poster is looking for reasons why/how politics can get so nasty. Not textbook definitions. Nationalism has been manipulated throughout the ages for political causes and means. Usually through expansionary war. I think that's the absolute height of politics becoming nasty or even insane. War is either rational to it's deadliest peak, or irrational by human nature. Depends on what you think/believe about human nature.

As for reinforcing my point on ideology you didn't try to dispute... well there's a reason why there's rules why we can't have debates about issues like gay marriage. They hardly end up civilized, and they do challenge everyone's so called "conventional wisdom". Diversity is always a threat to that.

Originally Posted by loyalist

A nation does not neccsarily identify with a state, as you have pointed out, as a state is mostly the "machinery of government", a legal and physical entity. A state has defined borders, government, sovreignty and the ability to negotatiate with other states. These two seperate human endeavors have a multiplicity of unique relationships: you can have a nation-state, multinational state, multi-state nation, state-nation and now the theoretical emergence of a market state!.

Or a State of Anarchy, of Revolution, or of Civil War. Back to the topic.

Originally Posted by loyalist

The truth is that unlike sports, music or other topicsof interest, politics determines more than anyhting and has more impact on real life.

You don't think the moral crusades against rock'n'roll, comic books, video games, "pornographic television" that were political by nature wern't the least bit irrational? Whether in their logic or persecution of action? Is Satan really trying to convert me through rock'n'roll?!

Furthermore you don't think said "areas of interests" had any effect on anybody's 'real' life? Or had massive amounts of influence in politics? I'm going to disagree with you there. Completely. Music, theater, and literature have always been of extreme importance and influence in politics. Despite it's varying message. If you believe that politics is the interaction of individuals governing everyday life, then these areas of interests for individuals do not outweigh each other in my mind.

Originally Posted by loyalist

Politics manages everything from hospitals to roads to schools to the military. Don'tconfuse politcs with government...politics can be very loosely defined as the study of interactions between individuals. It is these interaction which define our lives and how welive them, therefore, the subject is very touchy.

Explaining that politics is a touchy issue does not fully begin to explain why people become so enthralled or even crazy over politics. It certainly doesn't explain why people kill each other over it. You don't kill somebody over a issue you consider "touchy". Plenty of people throughout history have killed and died over issues of ideology and nationalism. Probably isn't going to change anytime soon.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Wesker

I find it curious how some people have so much hatred towrds certain political figures.

C'mon Wesker, you know you'd miss it if it was gone. Shows like South Park thrive and prosper off that kind of political controversy. It'd be a sad day for television and entertainment if that ever went away.

Originally Posted by Yggdrasil

I too would like to know why people get worked up as much as they do about politics.

Would you rather just have one corporate party instead of a loudly bickering pair of corporate political parties? Seems so boring. Like being communist or something. At least we can be amused and outraged by 'gun rights', immigration, gay rights, and other social issues that are used to differiciante the otherwise same bland party.

Originally Posted by Wesker

Jeez people, live your lives..realize that politicians have a very limited influence on you personally, and get over it.

Maybe progressive liberals are just gluttons for punishment.

"Our government is corrupt and inefficient."
"YEAH!"
"Let's organize and protest!"
"YEAAAAAH!!!"

......later.

"They ignored us...."
""
"Next time they'll surely pay attention!"
"Yay!"

Heh. The political left is still a huge source of amusement.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by loyalist

We made not be having an acedemic debate heere, however, clarifying terms and having rational arguments to beack your use of terminology contributes to the discussion.

I was only giving definition to those terms under the parameters of the subject. I still haven't heard or seen much to contradict my view. Especially with the tensions between Chavez-US, and the Iranian-UN-Nuclear issue. Nationalism is playing a huge role. They're particular nasty issues on a State level.

Originally Posted by loyalist

What I'm pointing out is that everything is the product of human interaction, therefore, politics is onvolved in absolutely everything in a person's life. I don't particularly see your "crusade" point. The so called "moral crusades" against certain cultural products really had very little to do with the items themselves and far more to do with....politics.?

Point is noted, that example was just an attempt to get you to answer why you think politics get people so entralled. Instead of focusing on trying to undermind my own explainations. I can't have that. I'm a shallow person.

Originally Posted by loyalist

For someone who decries nationalism,

I'm not decrying nationalism. You have me all wrong. I'm just focusing on a particularly negative point of view which is relative to my prespective.

Originally Posted by loyalist

is it rather odd that you focus on America in a more global discussion of politics. What about that large orange protest in Kyiv, hmm?

What make's you think I'm only focusing on America? I'll be more clear. Only the Bolivians in recent memory have demonstrated the political will necessary to virtually shut down their country to get what they want. There's very few exceptions to the rule.

The Ukrainian election protests don't really count as a good example. Both sides (whether pro-european, or pro-russian) had enough support from their respective international blocs to launch protests if their side didn't win. The protesters themselves were pawns. Who do you really think had more influence? The cadres of European nations, or a couple thousand protesters? Furthermore, do you really think those so-called progressives were singing the same tune when Russia turned off the tap to their natural gas supplies after their subsidies were abolished? I doubt it. But this is off on a completely different tangent to the subject matter.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell

Not unlike the political right, with their anti-abortion, anti-gay, prayer in schools protests, right?

I stopped finding the political right amusing the moment I realized they were serious about wanting armageddon to come about.

Have a question for you though; Has the status quo changed on any of those issues? From where I'm sittin' they haven't. They just get stirred up every now and then for political means. Politicians are great at ignoring people and using their ideology against them for political ends. That's why it's just easier to be amused by politicians and politics at large instead of letting myself be stirred up by it. I'm a happier person that way.

I was speaking idiomatically.