[Wii] Super Smash Bros. Brawl Tournament Discussion

For those of you wondering about the Super Smash Bros. Brawl Clans:

Originally Posted by Super Smash Bros. Brawl Clans

(I'm just using a random number here, work with me)

30 members split up into 6 clans consisting of five members.

Each week, all six clans will face off one other opposing clan.

Each member will randomly be assigned another member to fight off against in a best of three match up. Whoever wins, earns a point towards their team total this week. Whoever earns the most points after the five match-ups are done, earns one on the win column.

The cycle will repeat until each clan has face off against each other once. The amount of points you earn will be crucial also. Should the top clans both be 5-1, the amount of points you earned will determine your seeding for the Post Season.

The Post Season tournament will also be done in the same way, but in a single elimination tournament format. Clans will face off the same way as they did in the normal season, but should you lose there, you're knocked out of the Playoffs and the next team advances. This continues until we can crown a winner.

Match-ups for the playoffs will be done like so: 1v6, 2v5 ,3v4.

So fight hard, and make sure every fight counts.

I HAVE A RULE SET FOR THE LEAGUE

4 STOCK, 8 MINUTES
ALL STAGES
ITEMS ON - LOW

STOP SAYING THIS IS COMPLICATED AND I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING SET IN STONE. I'VE BEEN SAYING THIS FOR THE PAST TWO PAGES.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Please do so. The more help I could get with this the better.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I was just thinking of another sign-up thread, and just as precautionary measure, they re-post their Friend Code and the name they'll be using in tournament (not the profile name, the one that floats above your head).

And for CN (should he check this thread), I think it would be a better idea instead getting your brother to register to GFF, you should just post up the in-game name that he's using so we can associate the difference between you two.

I'll probably send both your match up, along with your brother's, in the same PM or something like that.

How ya doing, buddy?

At most, lag to a minimum. I'll attempt to do something with my connection since I'm aware that it's a little wonky whenever I play, but I can't make any promises.

And first order of business, how do you people wanna fight these matches? Stock? Timed? Combination of both?

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

So we'll just finalize that we're doing 4 stock, 8 minute matches. As I mentioned before, the 8 minutes is just so we don't get people camping somewhere too long or make the matches longer than they need to be.

Characters, we'll finalize that we don't need to ban anyone. I don't see any reason to. Even with Falco's infinite laser and Fox's Wall Shine, it's all dependent on rhythm, which could easily be broken both ways.

I was speaking idiomatically.

I'll probably just keep items on (even if they are unpredictable as hell) since everyone seems for them. I don't really mind half of them, but my question is will all the items on stage contribute to some of the lag? I doubt it, but it's still a question burning into my skull.

I'm only fighting for some stages being banned for this tournament, particularly Rumble Falls, Mario Bros., Flat Zone 2, Hyrule Temple, and Big Blue.

Rumble Falls - Scrolling stages suck. Period. Those little spikes on the stage don't really help much either.

Mario Bros. - The stage itself is very restrictive and the enemies running around could do a serious number on you. I don't think anyone wants to be KOed at 12% just because someone threw a (giant enemy) crab when you were standing at the side of the screen.

Flat Zone 2 - Particularly the same reason as Mario Bros. Restrictive stage, not fun being KOed at 12%, and those fucking zoo keepers.

Hyrule Temple - I just hate big stages and people will just camp out at the bottom to prevent being killed.

Big Blue - Lots of camping, and sucks being KOed because you landed on the road. The stage itself is horribly unpredictable.

I can't say my peace on 75m since I haven't unlocked it yet. And I don't particularly mind anything else on the banned list, so I'm all for them in the tournament.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Oh yeah, I'm against that stage too. I thought I talked about it, guess I didn't.

New Pork City - Too freakin' big, and having that monster thingy walking around doesn't help much either. You run into him, almost an instant KO.

Additional Spam:

Originally Posted by 28Link

Also, any chance of recording some of these matches? I mean, it might even things out to have everyone see each others' fighting styles in the prelim rounds. Plus, it would be entertaining for those of us not participating. =P

I would, but I haven't the foggiest idea how. <_<

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by immp

At the end of every match on the result screen you have the option to record a replay by pressing the Z button (provided the match wasnt super long)

Oh, I'm aware of that, I meant recording actual game footage. Like the videos people upload to YouTube and stuff... That kind of thing.

And I finally got all the stages, so now I can throw in my two cents on 75m:

75m - I hate this fucking stage. That spring bouncing around doesn't help either. BANHAMMER ON THIS STAGE.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Keeps popping out of nowhere whenever I'm on the top tier. I only had to play on it once to determine how much I hate this stage.

And my personal ban list for the tournament:

Rumble Falls
Mario Bros.
Flat Zone 2
Hyrule Temple
Big Blue
New Pork City
75m

Just seven stages out of the 41. Agree to ban these? Disagree? Argue with me, dammit.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I'm just not fond of the stage design either... I could sense a lot of people camping on this one also.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

If people feel that scrolling stages should be banned, then Mushroomy Kingdom and Rainbow Cruise are out of contention also. I don't mind Mushroomy Kingdom as much, since I do like the stage, but Rainbow Cruise and the disappearing platforms are hard as hell to deal with.

Both are counterpick stages, as was Rainbow Cruise in Melee.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Yeah, I'm all for banning Rainbow Cruise if everyone agrees to it. I particularly like Mushroomy Kingdom, so I'm all for that being in our tournament. There's a nice handful of heavy characters I like using. Rainbow Cruise doesn't help their cause.

Rainbow Cruise: Yes? No?

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Sakabadger

I guess you meant "all stages cept final destination banned".

Anyway, yeah, I think the whole concept of banning is silly. Every tournament you hear about out there is the usual "no items" blather. On one hand it may lend to a more skilled and precise environment, but on the other it just seems kind of... boring. Smash is kind of unique in that it uses items and non-traditional stages, but it's the only game I know of where people insist on removing content.

Once again suggesting that things of this nature can simply be hashed out between the two competing parties before the match. Both fine with any stage? Then any stage goes. Both feel like a certain stage sucks? Then they can agree on which ones to not use. Just putting a ban on certain stuff seems kind of restrictive.

I understand about how banning does feel a bit restrictive on gameplay, but along with it being fun, I at least want the battles to be fair in a sense that it's gonna take 10 minutes to KO one life out of you.

My argument on keeping Temple banned is that slower characters will have some sort of disadvantage with chasing down your opponent. Since we're running this with 4 stock, 8 minutes, I don't want someone getting a win without earning it. I just don't want them camping out the whole time and letting them get their win by just standing there. Pretty much why I'm against using this stage.

Earn your wins, dammit.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Colonel Spreadsheet

I am honestly amused at how much content one must strip away from a game to make it "fair" for all users.

You're right though, how dare people use a stage's layout to their advantage! How dare you try to be strategic about your character's placements?

This annoys me in first person shooters as well. All stages should be perfect circles so there are no corners to hide in and everyone's on a perfectly level playing field with the best guns. Fuck, y'know, coming up with counters.

None of you guys are good enough to be tourney level players, so it's not like you'll all be untouchable if you use a stage layout to your advantage. It's not like Brawl wasn't designed from the standpoint of leveling the playing field for JUST THIS PURPOSE and all that, I forgot.

What do I know though? I'm not participating in this. Kinda glad I don't have the time with school, now, though.

Good lord why am I starting this argument. It's not like this party game is a true fighter. I just hope that whatever you guys end up deciding on is fun for everyone involved and doesn't end up with anyone annoyed or exclusded or not signing up or anything. I am kinda surprised that we're no better than those we've hated on for so long though. Le sigh.

I am, at least, appreciative of the discussion going on instead of having one person decide all the rules and some people being sadface with it. Bravo for that, Chaotic.

I've had worse situations. One time I actually had to fight for MLG Tournament Standard Rules to be the standard.

A friend and I were running a tournament a couple months ago at the high school I graduated from. I drop by for one of the clubs to help out since it just started last year, and I'm the only graduate with enough free time to go back. Anyway, the idea of a Melee tournament was brought into play since the club made it's staple with video game tournaments. I was talking to my friend whom I was planning this with and he argued with me that we would only be doing two stock matches, Final Destination only.

I honestly wanted to slap him for it, because that falls even below the standards of Casual Smashers. Even the Beginning Smashers play with more restriction that that. I did, however, understand where he was coming from on this, since:

1. We were doing this during after school hours (which range from 2:30 to 4:00)
2. We only had two days to pull this off.

I had to fight him for using JUST neutral stages and more than two stock. Eventually we got to using Neutral Stages (Final Destination, Battlefield, Pokemon Stadium, Fountain of Dreams, and Dreamland [N64], we removed Yoshi's Story... No one really liked that stage) and 3 stock, 3 minutes.

I was dissatisfied with the tournament (since everyone in the tournament were stupid dipshits. For Christ's sake, someone used Mewtwo. o_o), but we messed up on the first day, so we had to rush EVERYTHING in the second day.

But I've dealt with worse situations. I was on the same end as you guys are now with trying to debate with which stages should be put in a tournament, so I'm completely understanding of you guys defending certain stages. I still don't feel that Temple should be used, but if the majority rules in it's use, then so be it. I've said my peace and feel free to disagree.

But we're doing this March Smashness tournament so we can determine clan leaders so we could possibly start this league up next month. Do we really want a clan leader who camped his way to a victory position? But if we do want to record EVERY match for this tournament, I suppose I'll be alright with the 3 stock, 3 minutes thing. What format are the videos saved in anyway? But if we do you use this, then Temple is definitely banned since it will probably take you two minutes to just knock one stock off of someone.

How ya doing, buddy?

It's interesting, but it could be a nice side thingy to the tournament and league matches.

I guess we could do this during the off-season of the Brawl League. I like the idea of it though.

FELIPE NO

I'll summarize it all up in a minute: I'll edit this post when I'm ready and add it to the first post also.

Here we go:

Originally Posted by Super Smash Bros. Brawl Clans

(I'm just using a random number here, work with me)

30 members split up into 6 clans consisting of five members.

Each week, all six clans will face off one other opposing clan.

Each member will randomly be assigned another member to fight off against in a best of three match up. Whoever wins, earns a point towards their team total this week. Whoever earns the most points after the five match-ups are done, earns one on the win column.

The cycle will repeat until each clan has face off against each other once. The amount of points you earn will be crucial also. Should the top clans both be 5-1, the amount of points you earned will determine your seeding for the Post Season.

The Post Season tournament will also be done in the same way, but in a single elimination tournament format. Clans will face off the same way as they did in the normal season, but should you lose there, you're knocked out of the Playoffs and the next team advances. This continues until we can crown a winner.

Match-ups for the playoffs will be done like so: 1v6, 2v5 ,3v4.

So fight hard, and make sure every fight counts.

Hopefully after sign-ups, we can make an even amount of clans with odd members so this works out perfectly.

Slash, write up something for the round-robin tournament, I'm not exactly sure how you're doing this, so I trust you that we can make this work.

Most amazing jew boots

Originally Posted by Sakabadger

Sorry if this was mentioned and I missed it, but clarify something for me please:

what determines the makeup of these clans? Is it left up to ourselves to get organized (aka team with whoever you want), or is someone (Chaotic or Slash evidently) going to be splitting people up?

That... I still need to think about. I don't want anyone feeling too restricted, so I might just allow you to flock to whatever team you want. But I'm still on edge about how successful that would be. I don't want someone ending up on a team that they don't want to be on because the clan was full up or something...

Maybe I might do a random draw thing. I'll number the remaining players and the clan captains will randomly draw numbers to compose their team. Just so everything is fair or something. I'll even allow trades to happen between clans.

I dunno, though. I'll think of something eventually.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Freelance Wolf

.....

Who actually does that anyway except amateurs/idiots? I've played that stage with my sister tons of times in Melee and that situation has never occurred. Maybe we're just better players or something, but I doubt any GFFers would do something like that. Heck I had a fun match on that stage with several GFFers just a few days ago.

I'm going to really suck in the tournament, but I'll join anyway. My sister hasn't said anything about it yet.

P.S. I wonder if anyone else is going to get under the Wolf ava/sig bandwagon. I'm not a huge Wolf fan (I'm a Fox fan) but I must admit he looks cool in Brawl.

You probably never had timed stock matches then. When time is tossed into play at Temple, shit hits the fan.

P.S. Funny how you complained about him prior to the Brawl release.

Additional Spam:

Originally Posted by Slash

I so couldn't help saying this...

We're so going to be like the fucking NBA lol.


But I kind of like the idea of a draft or something. I dunno. First we gotta see how many people would be down for this whole thing

Yeah, but the NBA doesn't choose numbers out of a hat, just to see who they drafted. For draft picks, yes. For the players themselves, no.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I'll just quote from SmashWiki on why I want and why Temple is banned from competitive play:

Originally Posted by SmashWiki

Temple is, along with Final Destination, the stage that is most often incorrectly considered among a list of completely fair stages. In fact, most high level players will attest that Temple is among the most unfair stages in the game. Its immense size gives an extreme advantage to fast characters with projectiles (i.e. Fox) and the Fight Club (the lower portion of the stage) completely revamps the way the game is played. Most of the misconceptions about its fairness come from newer players who see the large size as a way to allow them to live longer. While this is true to a degree, the upper death lines are nowhere near as stretched as the side ones. This again give a distinct advantage to characters who have the most knockback in the upwards direction, but completely devalues a character who's knockback is in side to side directions. This being said, Temple is banned in high level tournaments because it forces the game to take on a role completely different from any other stage.

I'm no high level player, but they do have a point. o_o

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I'd rather plan on completely flat stages with no depth. At least then I could earn my kills on you. I don't see how it's fun hiding in the Fight Club anyway. There's no skill involved with that. The whole point of the Clan Leaders Tournament is to see who's the best and who will be able to be a Clan Leader. I don't really find it acceptable if someone got to that position by hiding a good majority of the tournament.

If Slash plans to run the Clan Leaders Tournament with 3 stock, 3 minutes, Temple is completely out of the question anyway. It takes at least 1:30 to get a kill and with someone who has bad vertical play, probably even longer. You could probably go the whole match with neither player getting killed. Time will run out by then.

And Saka, I completely understand the whole avoidance of trying to mention Smashboards or any place like that, but they just said what I'm thinking the best anyway (btw, death lines are the KO points in the arena). I want everyone to have fun in this tournament, even if they are lame, but I'm just REALLY fighting for Temple to be banned because that stage pretty much brings the lameness in everyone. People are going to stay on the bottom. People are going to do their best job dodging by running away. People are gonna choose fast characters just for the sake of that purpose.

I wanna avoid those situations while we still can.

At least everyone else isn't fighting too hard about the other banned stages (at least I think so <_<)... This is pretty much the only one that seems to be fought for a lot.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Yeah, I wasn't gonna force anyone to stick with the same character. Tourney people have mains, but since they play best of 5 matches, they're allowed to change characters.

So why not be able to do this here?

And Kesubei, yeah, pretty much for the most part. Temple is still under debate though and I'm not sure whether or not people wanted Rainbow Cruise in also... Yes? No?

I was speaking idiomatically.

Which it why it partly baffles me that we're somewhat against tournament rules in a tournament setting. o_o

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

That's the problem though, SOME people want certain stages gone, SOME people want them there.

I can't exactly call majority rules on anything when not everyone agrees with each other. That's the point of this thread though, so we can see what the people want in this tournament.

FELIPE NO

But let's be honest, Rotor. I could make my job easy by enforcing rules one way or the other, but arranging ANYTHING in a video game tournament is never easy. There's always going to be one opposing side to what's enforced and in return, that's going to scare off some participants because the tournament isn't being run a certain way.

I don't wanna run a tournament where I'm gonna be dissatisfied with the way it's being run. I want to maximize participants while maximizing satisfaction by letting the participants themselves speak so we could have a tournament that everyone could be happy with.

This is what I get for not refreshing, but this is what I needed to see. Sprout, I love the idea. We'd probably give rule priority towards the last place clan. That way, the people speak, and everyone (I guess) will be satisfied. What does everyone else think about his idea?

Most amazing jew boots

Originally Posted by Kesubei

I kinda wish we could put sprouticus's idea and immp's idea together. Both add more than a little fun to this whole clan thing.

I agree with the banned stages so far, excluding Hyrule. I'm against scrolling stages and that includes Rainbow Cruise. Hyrule and New Pork City are big, but if we're just going to have three minute matches size shouldn't make much of a difference.

I'm fine with low item settings, but are you banning certain items? (healing items, hammers, etc.,)

Most people want them on.

And three minute matches? Yes, size matters. Have fun chasing down your opponent in New Pork or Hyrule on a three minute time limit.

Jam it back in, in the dark.