Professional Game Composers and Amateurism

I kind of understand where Cellius is coming from. If I'm familiar with an original piece, I have at least an idea of what I want it to sound like. Going out of your way to make it sound radically different...No offense to anyone, but it seems rather ego-driven to me. Like, using the original track to promote yourself. I guess that's all well and good if you like the actual arranger's work from the start, but not so good for a listener looking for a satisfying arrangement. One of the reasons I loathe the Chrono Trigger: Brink of Time album (sorry, can't think of a fan arrangement I legitimately despise...Mmm, good thing?) is because it seems like an excuse to show how many funky effects and solos the arrangers can cram in, with the actual arranging of the original tunes more or less an afterthought. Gets old really fast, since I can care less about who GUIDO is and what kind of music they make for a living. The Rockman X arrange (why take a score knee-deep in heavy metal and do a full-on jazz-fusion arrange?), F-Zero (ditto) and some of the more junk techno arranges (think FF Mix and the Konami Remixes albums) stand out the same way, rather infamously.

For example (don't hate me, Dhsu!), I was never a fan of piano arrangements. To me, it's totally backwards to take a more complex piece and strip it down to a single instrument. Great for piano fans mostly, but I get bored of them really fast because I don't particularly care for much solo piano. I haven't heard a single arrangement that's changed my mind about that, despite many featuring some of my favorite pieces (and I don't just mean the dumbed-down FF or DQ ones).

But then again, it varies from listener to listener...What's acceptable to one might not be acceptable to another.

As for the topic on hand...I believe the Super Sweep members release albums at the comikeets as well. I'm pretty sure that's how Tobi Tsukihime and Mama-san's Volleyball were put out. And also, I believe Hiroki Kikuta put out Alphabet Planet at one of the doujin events (and maybe Lost Files). And then there's SSH and Mintjam, who made the jump to being "professional" by getting contracted for doing soundtracks (and in the case of SSH, professional arranges with the Atelier albums).

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Originally Posted by CHz

By "complexity," are you just talking about the number of instruments?

Pretty much.

Quote:

I also think simplification is a valid arrangement technique. :|

Never said it wasn't. I just can't think of an example where drastically and intentionally simplifying a piece would result in something I'd want to listen to.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Liontamer

Honestly, the people making those complaints about lack of recognition, those people don't have the ear for it and end up missing out on a lot because they can't figure out what's what and don't put forth the effort, but that's their prerogative.

<insert Doc's post here, verbatum>

Like I said earlier, it sounds to me like you expect people to make something out of what is largely an original work disguised as an arrangement of a particular piece. Sorry to say, in most cases, it's an artist I wouldn't have interest in besides the fact they're arranging a game tune I'm interested in. Not saying the artist is bad, but sometimes I feel like I'm being conned into listening to something I would have originally skipped. And yeah, I'm not real open-minded to pieces that give me that feeling once I have it on and see what the deal with it is. I treat them the exact way I do a "professional" arrangement that gives me the same feeling.

In contrast...I listen to a lot of the original material from several doujin artists, mostly because I've been introduced to them through their arrangements (SSH, Mintjam and the recent CROWZFEST compilation and "Sword of Justice" being among the more prominant examples). Being familiar with the way these guys arrange game music and the style they apply to it, it normally strikes as something I'd want to listen to when I'm not looking for VGM arrangements. And more often than not, I highly enjoy the original stuff.

Originally Posted by Arcubalis

Haha, Gold, nice stab at my two favorite arrange albums of all time (BoT and Rockman X Alph Lyra). =P

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This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Liontamer

But if you like this SMB arrangement, Goldfish, isn't that completely hypocritical? It's not even 45% Super Mario Bros. By your own reasoning re: Rockman X and Brink of Time, you would now have to dislike this as well. :-)

Not quite...I think it's a piss-poor arrangement, but I enjoy it as a piece of music because I happen to like the arranger's general style (though I think this is pretty uninspired and standard fare for SSH...It's not in my current queue for his music, let me put it that way). That doesn't apply to either of the other two albums, where the stuff that happens "between the lines" is complete garbage to me.

With SSH, I get a decent solo that's at least linked to the main melody and the backing riffs and doesn't sound totally out of place...More or less his signature sound, which I'm accustomed to. With BoT, I get the sound of a guy walking onstage, solos that feel totally disjointed from the main pieces, a cute voice clip that says "it's the beginning of a new and exciting era" or something to that extent, a giant crash at the end of one track, random plucking for over a minute in another track and believe it or not, the few instances of the Mario melody in the SSH track sound better to me than any single instance of any CT melody that show up on BoT (and that's not a compliment for SSH). The musicians there aren't going to get on my good side anytime soon and I have no faith in their arranging abilities. I've even said in the past I think "Time and Space" is a much more professional arrangement effort of the material, despite the "fanmade" label.* My issue with the RMX one mostly has to do with the tempos, not so much unfaithful arrangements...Listening to short, quick melodies being stretched out the way they are on that album gives me a headache. How they can envision a fast-paced rocker like Intro Stage or Storm Eagle as a slow, six minute jazz-fusion piece is beyond me, but they did it. Somehow, I don't think the majority of people who heard it got the same impression. Or at least Protricity didn't..."Brainsick Metal" is by far one of my favorite fan arranges. And then there's the factor that the music to RMX and CT is a lot more important to me than the Mario theme is (which by this point, is so overdone, I almost don't want another version of it).

So just keep in mind...There are other factors at play. It's not black and white. Which is why I said I agree with parts of what Cellius said

PS...Sorry again Dhsu...I typed out the part about piano arranges, then I remembered "Oh shit, Dhsu's the piano man around here." and added the one part at the beginning.

*The irony there is...I think it was Mustin that bought my copy of BoT.

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Originally Posted by RainMan

I would think smooth jazz would be right up F-zero's alley.

*listens to Mute City and Big Blue*

Huh?

I was speaking idiomatically.