The Immigration Protests

Originally Posted by god

I haven't changed my mind. I still think that those who came to this country illegally should be thrown out, no matter how long they've been here. However, for those still outside the country waiting to get in in order to work, a guest worker program would make the most sense.

So you are advocating the criminalization and expulsion of 12 million people who are interwoven into the fabric of American society because in the past they comitted a crime, most likely in order to ensure their own and their family's survival?

Come on man, you know better than that.

Most of these people are hard working, and I haven't seen any data that shows that these people are any more than simple, low-wage workers.

And how are they going to find out who is a legal and an illegal immigrant? Aproach wet-backs and chinks for their papers? Ever heard of anything that against the spirit of this nation anymore than that?

There's nowhere I can't reach.

So you want to DEPORT 12 million people?

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Do you know your own history? Why did people not establish a national language?

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I want to see them start sending the police through the protestors demanding proof of citisenship or green cards. I know no one is goign to be willing to give that politicly suicidal order but it'd be really entertaining and if they aren't legally allowed to be here then they shouldn't be protesting part of a political process they have no right to have a say in.

They are fucking human beings who live and help build this country from day to day. Don't be a fucking monster.

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I want to see them start sending the police through the protestors demanding proof of citisenship or green cards. I know no one is goign to be willing to give that politicly suicidal order but it'd be really entertaining and if they aren't legally allowed to be here then they shouldn't be protesting part of a political process they have no right to have a say in.

That's not even a coherent sentence.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

I think you should read up on your own history, on both of your concerns.

http://www.wikipedia.org/

That should be a good start. I think Styphon and other people who know American history would agree.

It's not that I believe there is no sense to your side, it is that you have none of it whatsoever.

I was speaking idiomatically.

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If they actually cared about America they wouldn't be chanting "Mexico" in our streets and openly saying that their illegal activity was ok because they are "entitled" to do that.

Yes, we've heard this point TEN times.

However, many of these people have been here for a long time, and they are integral to our society.

Also, Americans are all about staying true to their heritage.

Ad nauseam.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

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And how many of your illegal immigrants pay taxes? NONE.

Actually, to correct you, a court ruling from the 1980s, which put the burden to control illegal immigration on the employers says that employers can only hire people with Social Security cards. So, what the great majority of illegals do (probably all of them) is they work with a fake Social Security card (these go for $50-$100 in MA, I've heard they go for much less in Texas and California).

So, in fact, illegals may be overpaying their taxes.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Zimarooski

I hang out with awesome Hispanics at my school, the smart ones. They've joking talked about making shirts that say "Mexicans sit the fuck down!" That and every time a latino person gets up in Government class (the class where I hang out with most of them in) to go to the restroom or something, we jokingly whisper "Latino heat!"

Yeah, I often wear a shirt that says "Kill the immigrants, for they may clean our houses or prepare our food."

Even though I live around Boston there's sort of an anti-immigrant sentiment that goes around.

I say it is unwaranted.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by god

Is the sentiment anti-immigrant or anti-illegal immigrant, because there's a world of difference between the two. Any responsible citizen should be anti-illegal immigration.

It is anti-immigrant, period.

Hard-core hillbilly Irish people are very anti-immigration of any sort.

Immigrants are taking over their city, you see.

This is nothing new, there is a common cycle for such things.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by LeHah

The ones that come into our country illegeally.

: rimshot :

I know it's a joke, but I will enlighten you nonetheless: a fried of mine, who happens to be an illegal immigrant turned down Harvard last year for an undergraduate program at Williams (read: Number 1 Liberal Arts College in America).

It is something to be against Illegal immigrants. Being against their children is something else entirely, as in most of the cases the children had no choice in coming here.

Originally Posted by LeHah

I don't think there is such a thing as "hillbilly Irish". Hillbillies are deligated to the blue mountain ranges below the Madison-Dixie line. The Irish are known to have more or less completely stayed in the Northeast.

And people in Boston are fucking morons anyway. Sports Illustrated voted Red Sox fans as the second worst fandom in sports history.

You are right.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

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It is something to be against Illegal immigrants. Being against their children is something else entirely, as in most of the cases the children had no choice in coming here.

This is why, dumb fuck.

Have you read Crime and Punishment?

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Actually I just asked 'coz I think it is a good book, and was gonna suggest you read it if you hadn't.

You Raskolnicok, you.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

I don't see how a handful of people translating the national anthem to Spanish would affect the immigration protests at all.

Because you know, in the end, few people care.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by PUG1911

Yes it's available in French, English, and mixtures of both. It's often played one version after the other as well.

As for this whole 'no official language' thing. Why not just adopt English as the official language? It'd be a hell of a lot more simple since it seems to be what a huge majority wants anyways.

I told you 3 pages ago to read up on American history.

I am serious, man. You could be a much less confused person if you did so.

---

I think I am boycotting. My family is not.

I hope the legislature gets voted on soon... Frist said he should get it together by May 30th.

Most amazing jew boots

Wait, wait.

I would sincerely like to see where you got this data from, along with data for American Citizens in welfare.

Because, not for nothing, it only seems reasonable that American Citizens cost American Tax Payers a HELL OF A LOT MORE money than illegals do. Afterall, there are a lot more Americans than illegals.

Also, it's not like illegals don't pay taxes! Like I said before, unless immigrants are paid under the table, they need a social security by federal law. It's up to the employer to check the legality of the person; most of them don't care. So the illegals use FAKE social security numbers, which, by definition, do not allow them to fill out income tax forms. Like you guys said, most illegals are close to the poverty line, and would most likely be entitled for a lot of tax returns... Yet they can't get any of them.

So, looking at it from this perspective, illegals overpay their taxes. 12 million illegals overpaying their taxes probably makes up for the $200 millions you talked about.

FELIPE NO

The issue I addressed was the idea that illegals cost the government however many million dollars.

Also, under current laws, most illegals are not entitled to deportation simply by being here illegaly, thus the controversy.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I didnt know you wanted to lose the war, lehah.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

What do people think about the speech Bush gave earlier this week? Those following the voting in the Senate, what do you think?

I am pretty fucking optimistic. It looks like serious amnesty will be signed into law the end of this month. Good deal.

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Interestingly enough, English might become the official language with this bill.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

The debate is ramping up in the U.S. Senate. A cloture motion was filed by Senate Majority Leader Frist a couple of days ago, so they should be voting in this bill (s. 2611, comprehensive immigration reform/border patrol) either tonight or tommorow morning.

I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens. For a long time I've been very positive about this, but recent amemdments have made it so that this bill may have a harder time passing.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Cloture passed, Finnancial portion waivered, so the bill is well into being passed by the Senate.

We'll see what happens at the House.

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Originally Posted by Night Phoenix

The point here is that offering amnesty without first securing the border is only going to make the problem worse as people from Mexico are going to rush across the border to take advantage of what's happening. 6,000 troops and an additional 400 miles of fence isn't nearly enough to lock down the border sufficiently.

Not Gonna happen. Anyone that can't prove they haven't been in the country since January 2006 are excluded from this bill. This is a very clear part of it.

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I'm not an extremist on this, but I am a realist.

I think everyone considers themselves to be realistis at everything, man.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Night Phoenix

A very similar provision was included in the 1986 amnesty. Look at how well that worked.

It's been 20 years. Also, the burden of proof was left on the employer, which makes no sense since the employer WANTS the low-wage illegal immigrants.

Also, it will be far less cumbersome for people to come here now.

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Originally Posted by Devo

Considering most illegals make it a habit of hiding their illegal status, how will ones who have been here that long prove it? Receipts? Witness testimony?

Pay stubs is what they have in mind. Also, as I understand it, only the head of the family needs to prove they've been in a steady job for however long, and the rest of the family can get the green crad (it may become "orange card" because of this bill).

How ya doing, buddy?

It's not the legality that he has a problem with, it is that the law is on his side: The law makes it very fucking hard for immigrants of any kind to come to the US. He likes that. Guess why?

Also, America is with as good an economy as it has ever had. Dow Jones was like close to 12,000 the other day. That's crazy! The all-time high! To say that these immigrants have seriously hurt this economy is something that is hard to prove.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Not many illegals work under the table. The 1986 Immigration Legislation puts the burden of immigration control on the employers. So, employers are only allowed to hire people with social security cards.

A fake social security card costs $50 here in Boston. Most of my friends who are illegal immigrants have them. Since employers WANT illegal immigrants (they are very hard working, they do jobs Americans don't), no one ever checks the Social Security cards.

On the end, illegals can't file their taxes because of their fake numbers, and end up overpaying their taxes for not getting returns.

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Originally Posted by Night Phoenix

No need to guess, I'll tell you: The flow of immigration, regardless of country of orgin, needs to be strictly controlled so that it is easier to assimilate immigrants into American culture. Unrestricted immigration, which the pro-illegal immigration lobby wants, doesn't encourage assimilation. In fact, it discourages it.

I was going for the clarity with which you dislike immigrants, illegal or otherwise.

But, whatever man.

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By the way, S. 2611 (Comprehensive Immigration Reform Bill) passed the Senate today with 62-36 votes.

Hooray.

FELIPE NO

Because of the nature of the data there's no studies to show one way or another. However, from having spent a good part of my life around immigrant circles (and a great part of this circle is composed of illegal immigrants), I can safely say that at least in Boston the great majority of immigrants work with illegal Social Security cards.

For quite some time (2001-2004) people could pay a person in the Social Security office in Chicago a big sum (something like $5k) to have a REAL SSN assigned to them. This was worthwhile, though, because it gave people a shot at getting a legal driver's license, one of the biggest problems that Illegal immigrants face in the US.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Night Phoenix

So I'm a xenophobe because I expect to be able to communicate with my countrymen, what the fuck?

Don't you give me that diversity bullshit. These people have no intention of integrating with American society or culture. They don't want to learn the language, they don't want to assimilate into our culture. A melting pot is useless when one of the ingredients doesn't want to mix with the others.

I think he called you xenophobe because you expect other people to learn the language YOU speak because it makes things easier for you.

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Originally Posted by Ridan Krad

Watts, I disagree with you in regards to your statement that the situation cannot be changed, regardless of any actions taken to improve border security. If one were to employ unmanned planes to patrol the borders and then have national guard strike units that respond to anything detected by them, this would allow for a more secure border, without overly thining out the national guard as it could then be reserved only as a responsive measure, while the actual border would be one maintained by a strong presence of reconnaissance units, requiring far less personel to maintain.

Is this human...

I mean, is this something that the US wants to go on record as having used?

Don't even answer this question, NP. I know what you will say: "YES OF COURSE WE MUST MAINTAIN THE IDEA THAT WE ARE A SOVEREIGN NATION AND THAT OUR MILITARY KICKS ASS AND WE WILL KILL IF YOU TRY SO FUCK OFF." (rap beat fades in the background)

Jam it back in, in the dark.

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If I went to Mexico and expected everyone to conform to the language I spoke despite the common language being Spanish, I'd be called an 'arrogant American.' But if I expect Mexican immigrants, illegal or not, to learn the common language of the United States - English - then I'm a goddamn xenophobe?

People don't need to learn english, though. As a matter of fact, it is perfectly possible to be a contributing member of an American society with only basic or rudimentary english. Janitors, cooks, etc and all sorts of other profesions where customers are no interfaced have little to no use for English.

Besides, communities that are united based on their background can thrive in unbelievable ways. There's no need to Americanize everything.

Ever heard of the San Francisco China town?

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Why is it suddenly inhuman to DEFEND YOUR FUCKING BORDERS AGAINST PEOPLE WHO ARE BREAKING YOUR LAWS?!

I don't get you people. Every other country in the world is allowed to defend itself except America.

That would be militarizing our borders, as the post I was refering to put it.

That's something that you may want, but the majority of Americans probably don't.

There's nowhere I can't reach.