[:plant:] The GFF Game Club [Now Playing: Max Payne] Now with less spoiler tags

Stick my name on the list, seeing as how I updated myu backloggery recently. I might even play Ico, although I've lost interest very quickly every time I tried to play it before.

Edit: Ok, so I've been playing ICO for 45 minutes now and it seems that every time something happens to make the controller vibrate it switches off the analogue controls, meaning every time I get hit by one of those shadow things, I have to remember to switch it back on or the kid just stands there like an idiot while the girl gets dragged off. This doesn't happen with any other PS2 games and I can't find an option to turn off vibration in the pad without starting a new game. I guess I can use the digital pad although the down button doesn't work too well on the one I'm currently using and I can't be arsed to dig out one of my spares at the moment.

Is the kid with horns talking French? It certainly sounds like it which I'll admit is hampering my ability to connect with him emotionally...

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Several hard resets of the console have fixed the analogue stick issue, I'm now an hour and a half in, just reached the graveyard. I know some people find the relationship between Ico and Yorda quite endearing but so far she's mainly just annoying. She never comes unless you call her three times and when they run holding hands it looks like they're connected by bungie rope. That said, the castle is beautifully realised and the puzzles are suitably thought provoking without being too much of the try every item with every bit of scenery type you get in point and click games. At this point I prefer SotC but I'll stick with it.

How ya doing, buddy?

Since I appear to be the only one currently playing...

Spoiler:

I dunno, whilst ICO certainly has it's charms, the most notable of which being the castle itself, the number of issues I have with it are mounting up to the point where I'm playing it for the sake of finishing it, rather than because I'm enjoying it. My main problems are:

Combat in general is frustrating rather than fulfilling. The shadows stay out of reach far too long meaning you're spending most of your time sitting waiting for them to come to you. Also they clip through walls and woe betide you if there's a pool at the top of a ladder or something as the collision detection to get onto a ladder is frustratingly bad when you're being chased by a bunch of monsters, all of which can hit you hard enough to stun you so you can't possibly reach Yorda in time. It's also really fucking annoying that she never runs away from the things and in fact, seems less responsive to you pulling her around when they're there, forcing you into a long and boring fight rather than allowing a far more exciting dash for an idol door.

It's really annoying to solve a puzzle that's particularly time consuming, only to game over because of Yorda getting grabbed and then having to repeat the easy yet time-consuming puzzle again and again. After a couple of attempts you feel like you're being punished, not challenged.

Whilst the camera work is generally ok, it's sometimes really hard to see the point you need to jump from or which direction. That the camera swings from a fixed point with the right stick rather than fully rotating makes the game harder than it needs to be for the wrong reasons at time. Once I've worked out where to go, I don't want to be defeated by the camera angles, the annoying as fuck Windmill jump being a prime example.

I'm finding that at first these were minor irritations but are now becoming so prevalent they're turning me off the game completely, to the extent I found myself getting irritated by the way ICO runs and his stupid, orange hot-pants last night and had to turn it off. It's only a short game by all accounts but for me it's best approached in very small stages.

For the record, I just finished lighting up half the gate and lowered some big drawbridge across the first area, then had a game over trying to get to a save point when Yorda was grabbed and carried fucking miles away down a long chain, causing me to stop playing before I got angry again.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Spoiler:

I think to be fair I was over-emphasising my annoyance, having just put it down. The Windmill jump took too many attempts for me and there was another one soon after swinging off a chain near the top where it seemed pot luck rather than judgement to get your height right on the chain to make the jump. Other than that the jumps are easy enough, although having to track back past a long shimmying section is always annoying if you miss one. The Euro version super-jump helps too (I did a bit of wider reading).

I also get that the Shadows are trying to lure you off but I'm not too keen on how it relies on you getting bored of waiting to trip you up. I guess I either want to run in and fuck 'em up or ignore them and run off, the middle ground doesn't suit me so well.

I don't think I've lost Yorda once from being in another room. I tend to lose her when she gets grabbed just as I get hit, then gets carried to a pool on another level, needing a chain or ladder climb to reach. There was one particular section where they kept dragging her off to a raised bit and every time I tried to get on the ladder I missed by a fraction then got hit. I think it was particularly annoying as there was a lot of shimmying to get to the point they attack from the reload and Ico does that really slowly.

Like I say, for the most part I'm enjoying the puzzles and the landscape is incredible. Every time I turn the game on I play fine for 45 minutes or so, then run up against something annoying. Playing in small stints is fine though as it's a relatively short game and it certainly makes a nice change of pace from EDF.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Spoiler:

Like you said before though, it's very rare you need to leave her for long and as far as I've got, on the occassions you do it's blindingly obvious what you need to do so you don't waste time looking around. I think I left with a particularly bad taste in my mouth last night because my girlfriend got home and I thought I'd make a run for a save point, went across the balcony in the room where you collapse the bridge in the centre to get to the couch in the next area and got chased by Shadows, the camera made me get stuck on a pillar then Yorda was dragged down to floor level, meaning I needed to run the length of the level and slide down a chain to reach her, basically no chance. I've only got to back-track back to crossing the ramparts back from where you first get the sword so not actually that far.

Like I said, the good bits are really good and in small doses I can live with the bad bits. It's really making me want to play SotC again though!

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Spoiler:

I guess then you're either lucky or much better at judging the jump length than me. It wasn't the take off point I struggled with, it was not being able to see how much I missed the grab by so not knowing if I was timing it too early or too late. It only took about five attempts before pot luck kicked in but with a good minutes worth of climbing between each jump it quickly got annoying.

I suspect that as I already said, I'm just letting minor irritations get blown out of proportion and I think some of that is due to all the rave reviews I've seen the game get. When so many people bang on about what an amazing experience a game is, you set yourself up to really enjoy it so when you find a few annoying things about it, they seem much worse.

I know we got started on this early and the period doesn't end for a while but does anyone have any thoughts on what the next game should be? I'd vote for something a bit more exciting, how about Crackdown?

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by aerisangel

...or some xenogears?

Originally Posted by Shin

I'd vote for something a bit more exciting, how about Crackdown?

.....

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To keep interest levels up here you need some momentum. A few of us talking about it now will encourage more people to join the thread. We can keep talking about for as long as everyone has something interesting to say so chime in whenever.

Apologies to OP etc if I'm talking out of turn here and in fact you did want to wait for February to start talking about the game.

I suggested Crackdown as it's suitably faster paced than Ico, I assumed a bunch of people had it, it's dead cheap if people want to pick it up, it's fucking awesome and frankly, I just felt like playing it.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I stopped playing it and since then have finished ODST and got a fair way into Mass Effect on an evil playthrough.

I'm easily distracted.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I think if you're hovering near the hole, the shadow pops back out of another one. It certainly seems that way when there's only one left.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Spoiler:

I think the basic plot premis is a little clearer once you take Shadow of the Colossus into account. At the end of that, the hero goes all demonic, the bird comes back to life and you see her with a kid with horns (If memory serves), implying that Ico is in some way decended from the SotC kids. One would assume therefore that kids with horns are direct descendents of the SotC people and therefore, have some magnitude of that demonic power. Chances are, it's horned kids who have the power to defeat the witch, so she gets the villagers to lock them all up in her castle, either just to kill them or so she can drain their horn magic or what have you. Yorda is probably some sort of Ying to the witch's yang, an opposing force that she needs alive to live herself but who has the potential to overthrow her, so she keeps her locked up.

That's all conjecture of course but it looks like the kind of standard fantasy story schtick the Japs are fond of. I think part of the joy of the story though lies in it's ambiguity. Much like SotC, there's obviously greater forces at work but the focus of the main character and as a result the focus of the player is on immediate events. Ico doesn't knw why he's been locked up and so neither do you. SotC boy is only concerned with saving his missus and so are you. I don't think a long and detailed back-story would enhance either game at all, if anything you'd lose focus on what you were doing and start concentrating on the wider plot, lessening the intensity of the experience. In a game with a strong narrative like most Final Fantasys, there's no ambiguity, you know you're the hero, you know there's a bad guy to off and the fate of the world rests on your shoulders. In Ico, for all you know the queen is just a nonce who likes fucking dead children, there's no grand saving the world bullshit, you're just a kid trying to escape from a castle, being slowed down by a girl with downs syndrome who you need to drag along to open doors for you.

The reason films made from books are always dissapointing is that when you read a book, your imagination fills in the details of the setting and the voices and the look of the characters, no matter how detailed the descriptions. Once it's put into a film, those things are someone else's interpretation and bound to differ from yours slightly (Like who the fuck pronounces Sauron as Sour-on, rather than Sore-on), you lose connection with the story. Ico and SotC leave a lot to your imagination which is probably why people tend to find such a connection with the games. I didn't really enjoy Ico that much but SotC is an incredible game and from a story telling standpoint at least, they have a lot in common.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

From what little I've seen of it, it looks like it'll be similarly ambiguous. You play a small kid who meets a big kitten-bird thing and that's about it. They'd be silly to shift from a working model and heavy exposition ain't their style.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

That's always a possibilty. I think most people's expectation is that there'll be some form of link though so I'd be amazed not to see one, even if like SotC, it's just in the end credits. Maybe the kitten thing becomes a colossus and it's another prequel?

I was speaking idiomatically.

I think I'll give this one a miss, I've never been a big fan of platformy adventure type games at the best of times so buying another one I'm unlikely to enjoy seems a bit silly. Having forced myself to play Ico for slightly longer than I could be arsed, I don't think subjecting myself to another game from my "Don't like" category would prove anything.

Here's hoping you pick something fun next time.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

(Maybe the developers should have told the publishers that, seeing as how the official press release on the three shopping sites I looked at describe it as a platform action game)

(Edit: I take that back, it was all the reviews that called it a platformer)

FELIPE NO

(Oh ok, I didn't like the 3d Zelda games one bit)

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I hate shoot em ups so I'll sitting this one out too.

Looking forward to a month when all my several fantastic suggestions aren't completely ignored.

Actually, I might just start another thread seeing as how my suggestions were mainly a slightly different idea.

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It's not a competing thread, it's a different thread, doing different things, differently. Why can't we all just get along?

I have no problem with how you're doing things, I just felt something a bit different would be nice. Part of my role as moderator is to encourage community involvement you know and sometimes I have ideas that don't need CHz to re-write the database so I run with them. The only thing I'd change with this would be to pick games that might generate a bit more discussion. Ico was a good choice because of the whole ambiguous story angle, Crackdown would allow for discussion of tactics and different approaches to killing the bosses, BG&E doesn't seem to have sparked much of a reaction beyond people being annoyed with the animals and Ikaruga is a good choice, if you start talking about it while you're playing it, again to discuss tactics and what have you, rather than waiting till the end of the month to receive four or five posts saying how hard it is. You guys should encourage discussion during the playing period, it'd generate more posts and make the thread a lot more interesting in my opinion.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

That's not how Gamingforce works, mate. If you build it they will come doesn't work here, if you want some discussion you need to start it (Which to be fair you have for each game so far to some extent).

I personally won't play Ikaruga because I genuinely dislike that kind of game but I'm not writing your thread off by any means, I'm glad I finally got round to playing Ico and don't feel so bad about not getting round to it sooner having done so. You asked for comments on how you're running things and all I'd say is you need to persuade you co-organisers to chime in with some more discussion, otherwise I see this potentially running out of steam before it's time.

I really was only joking with that earlier post, I know my taste in games is somewhat divergent from yours, Skills' and Q's so I never expected many things I own to pop up in this thread.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I wasn't suggesting any sort of conspiracy, more that the games you've picked so far have a somewhat you/Skills/Q theme to them. It's only natural you'd want to play things you're interested in playing, if you get me involved I'll not rest until everyone is playing Too Human and Killer Instinct for a month. There's plenty of you running this already and I've got enough on my plate as it is at the moment thanks (Just signed up to a 360 Blood Bowl league that's eating a fair bit of time, a few things here, trying to get a job etc etc).

I think Crackdown would be a fun, silly one to play, Monkey Ball was more of a score challenge idea, the actual game is shit, maybe stick in a Silent Hill game for over-analysis of the story lols and a Tomb Raider game might be fun and you can discuss secrets and shit, Black would be a good choice of fps as there are quite a few ways to approach the game which would be interesting perhaps and at some point I ought to play Skies of Arcadia so put that on the list.

Those would be my suggestions as they're all games I've enjoyed in the past or own and have yet to play, I think there's plenty to talk about while you play them rather than just posting a review after a month and they're not likely to be things people have played recently. There are literally hundreds of similar games though and plenty of others that would fit the bill so don't in any way feel obliged to pick any of those. Also, if any of you think of any fun score challenges, please do post them in the other thread.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

The trick is to assume everything I say is a joke

I think this whole silly arguement was born out of you, me and Skills all having a bad day at the same time, these things happen I guess. I'll certainly carry on contributing to the thread, mate, or at least I will on the months where I join in. I'll probably download the trial version of Ikaruga off XBLA or something if I get ten minutes free and you never know, I might even enjoy it!

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Denicalis

If Shin starts sitting on this crucible, I announce now I'll play no games with wing shoes in them.

Fuck that guy.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I played the demo, wasn't impressed enough to buy the full game. I like slightly slower paced shooters where the screen isn't necessarily full of bullets, plus I like ones with power-ups. SWIV is awesome, as is Raptor Call of the Shadows and Xenon 2 is great, not just for the Bomb the Bass soundtrack.

Maybe you should have a quick headcount of who's going to play the next game once you've chosen it? It's all well and good saying Max Payne is the game du jour but if there are more people playing Bad Company 2 this month, would it not make sense to make that the game to discuss.

What's actually coming out this month anyway? The only new thing I'm tempted by is Resonance of Fate which is out here today I think, not seen anything else on the coming soon chart that inspired me to lay out for a full price launch title.

FELIPE NO

I'd definitely favour something with a co-op element, games are always more fun with other people and the dynamic does rather change with a human companion, if only because you inevitably spend more time fucking each other up than cooperating (Always wear a gas mask in co-op Rainbow because getting constantly flashed by your team mate is bad enough without getting tear gassed too).

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Rainbow Six Vegas 2, either two player co-op or four player terrorist hunts. I'd even be happy to pick up the first one as it's never much more than £5.

Also GRAW has pretty decent co-op to it and even Halo 3 is good fun with a team of you all together.

Jam it back in, in the dark.