"Find Jesus"

Jesus-God-Holy Spirit = classic tripartite Godhead concept. Yes, all three are God, but they represent different things.

God is all. The Holy Spirit is God as Creator (ie: moving over the waters to create Heaven/Earth). Jesus is God as Human, and represents the first time God came and directly contacted his creation; until this point, God made his will known by speaking to humans or sending angelic messangers. Jesus is the one who saves, not God directly. This article is kind of helpful.

And Jesus is, after all, what separates Christianity from the other religions that claim the same God (ie: Muslims and Jews). Of course Christianity is going to tell you to find Jesus. I'm a Christian myself, but usually I'm happy if people who are unbelievers come to accept the God concept in general.

Now, there is *one* misplaced emphasis that sparks controversy amongst Christian groups: the importance placed on Mary by Catholics, just because she's the mother of Jesus. Not being Catholic, I can't really give any answer to that. All I know is, Protestants don't really mention her much unless it's about Christmastime, whereas Catholics pray to her often.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Crash Landon

It is said in the Bible that all men (and women) were created equal in the eyes of the Lord. Hence, a sinner is just as beloved as someone who is sin-free; God sees no distinction between the two and the idea that anyone is unworthy is preposterous. Created in God and of God, right? To deny us is for God to deny himself.

It says in the Bible many times that God hates sin, and nobody that is a sinner will be accepted into Heaven, to be in the full presence of God. He does see a distinction, and that is everyone is a sinner, and falls short of the purity of God.

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Further, it also states that all sin is forgiven, even before reconciliation is ever sought. By this definition, all sin is absolved in the moment because God loves everyone equally.

In the Old Testament, God required animal sacrifices to show obedience and ask forgiveness for one's sins. The New Testament changes that by asserting that Jesus was sent by God to be the ultimate sacrifice, so that nobody need do any of the things from the OT that were required of believers. Since Jesus was sacrificed, one must accept that sacrifice (ie: know Jesus) in order to show devotion to God. The origin of 'finding Jesus' is one thing I can quote:
"I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." - John 14:6. By doing this one also acknowledges one's innate sin -- after which you receive forgiveness for said sins. So in that respect, yes, God did absolve all people of sin.

However, the problem is, a lot of 'modern [protestant] Christians' take this idea and run with it, as if simply "finding Jesus" allows them to behave just like the rest of world, without really following the teachings of Jesus or the Bible. So...hypocrites.

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Anyone can approach God. That's what prayer is...Having to use Jesus, or a priest, or anything as a conduit to reach God is unnecessary. Prayer isn't louder or more effective if done in a church or while clutching a rosary.

This is true. It has always been true, and always will be. Usually the prayer is invoked in Jesus' name, but this is more of a convention than a rule. After all, Jesus is the one who said to "Pray like this: Our Father, which art in Heaven..." He never said to pray to him/through him. This is where Buddhism and Christianity have a similarity: neither man asked to be proclaimed a Deity or start a religion when they were on earth. Man created that.

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Regarding Mary, I was raised Catholic. I know for certain that she is revered not as a deity but as a very significant Saint. Catholicism encourages prayer to Saints, as they're considered pure and just, and are to be trusted. I never bought into the idea that each Saint had autonomous dominion over a particular aspect of life, however. Rafael is the patron saint of artists, but in a pinch, Saint Agnes or Saint Christopher would be just as reliable.

Yes, I know that she isn't regarded as a deity. The everyday emphasis on her is just odd. Since Catholicism is such an ancient religion and absorbed so many different practices depending on where it was introduced, I've always accepted the whole "prayer to patron saints" thing to be a leftover of all the polytheistic religions Catholicism steamrolled over. Angelology as a religious idea is another example, praying to certain demigods rather than the to the Man himself.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Darklink2135

My own beliefs aside, the reason the focus is on Jesus, is that he kind of revamped the way the Jews thought things. Thus you had the branch from Judaism - Christianity which believed the teachings of Christ (or God the Son), and the Jews, who stuck more with the teachings of God the Father, because they didn't believe he was the Son.

Exactly.

And for Crash and Sass, I'm simply answering the question. I don't really care if you think it's silly/idiotic/hypocritical/whatever. It's the answer to Crash's question, sans personal input. Have either of you read The Master and Margarita by Mikhail Bulgakov? It's probably something you would appreciate, Crash, given your initial question and this comment:

Originally Posted by Crash Landon

During the period that I attended church, I could never get into the whole "Yay Jesus!" swing. He's just a guy, a guy who never once demanded to be worshipped. All he ever did was thank his Creator for every miracle he performed. Even Jesus deferred to God.

And one of the best books in Russian and world literature, to boot.


I still attend church, but I have also never been a "holy roller" or that sort. Actually, I often thought that Catholicism suited me more, since it's more ritualized and not so...off-the-wall...as a lot of Protestant churches (including most of the ones I was raised in). This is not to say I'm not religious, but there's a quote from a novel I read a few years ago that said, "Some men prefer to keep God close to their heart." I tend to agree with that.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.