Thoughts on racism

I don't know how anyone could say there isn't reverse racism going on in this country. I read 6 months ago about a scholarship someone tried to start up for Caucasians only, got shot down because it was racist.

African-Americans are going to always have their inferiority complex if we keep shit like affirmative action up, which TELLS them that everyone thinks they are inferior.

I'm definitely tired of double standards.

But on a slightly different note, there's too much shit being called racist that isn't. You dare make a funny joke on a black guy's expense, or a mexican's expense, you get labeled as an ignorant racist. Why can't it just be FUNNY and nothing else? Heck, I make mexican jokes around my mexican friends, they think it's funny, THEY make mexican jokes. Racism is actively denying people constitutional rights based solely on their race. Nothing more, nothing less.

I'm also sick and tired of seeing a race card pulled in courts where race has nothing to do with the matter.

Double Post:

Originally Posted by kat

Whites are forcing their history onto minorities, every history class in America from elementary school to high schools about white American and European history. It really says something when most minorities know more crap about England and France than they do about their own country (or their parent's country, parent's parents, etc.).

I'm sorry, but this is just extremely ignorant. We aren't forcing 'white' history on anybody. We are teaching the history of how America came to be, and like it or not, we started off with a colony of WHITE people coming to this country for the freedom to practice their religion without hamper. Race has nothing to do what is being taught. HISTORY has everything to do with what is being taught.

There isn't any reason to learn about black history outside of a black history class, unless you are talking about slavery/civil rights. Anything back further than that is pointless in a history class.

kat's post proves my point. People are interjecting race issues into things that have nothing to do with it. No wonder there's still so much racism in this country. People don't want to let the issue just die.

Around where I live we have this really cool program called "Celebrate Diversity." At first I thought it was one of those stupid things where minority oppression just gets shoved in your face, where they tell you how much stuff needs to be changed, etc, but I couldn't have been more wrong. They have this massive festival every year, it's probably the biggest thing around my area. I showed up when one of my friends (who is an excellent drummer) was playing in a band there invited me to come see him. It's just a time to hang out, get to know members of the community, eat some ethnic food, watch the air show, etc. This whole festival was just as much about hispanics (our main minority group) as it was other minority groups, and whites. It was just to show how awesome the blending of all these different cultures can be - including everyone's favorite - the terrible, oppressive, racist, whites.

I'm definitely planning to show up next year, hopefully for all of the festival. They have the whole race issue viewed from a very positive, and very correct angle.

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What history are we disregarding? Slavery and Civil rights are VERY important parts of American history, and SHOULD be taught, and we should definitely learn about important Black people in American History. Which we do. As well as important people of OTHER races.

But there is no reason for the importance to be based on race. If the person was an important contributor to American History, learn about them. I don't give a crap whether he was black, white, asian, or an oompa-loompa.

Black importance should NOT be the FOCUS of American History classes. AMERICA'S development into today's world should be. Black participation in that is just one small part of a larger whole. Involving native americans, asians, etc.

Black cultural development in Africa has absolutely NOTHING to do with American history whatsoever, and should NOT be taught in an American History class. That's best left for a Black History class.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Things leading to the cause of the first pilgrims leaving Europe to start a new colony in the Americas has EVERYTHING to do with American history. You have to start somewhere.

Even English colonization of Africa could be considered part of it, as a brief section, to explain how the slave trade arose.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Devo

Because slaves didn't come from Africa or anything, right Darklink?

What exactly is your level of reading comprehension? Go 2 posts back and read again, this time, very carefully.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

I apologize. I didn't realize you couldn't count to two.

Black cultural development (in Africa) has nothing to do with American history. Civil Rights, the development of jazz music, etc...all that DOES.

English colonization of Africa and them starting up the slave trade, and us shipping African slaves to America DOES.

Go read my posts. I've clearly stated that if important to American HISTORY, then include it. Irish immigration - sure, talk a little about the potato famine. Slavery? Sure, talk about how the slave trade started up. Going in depth to how black culture arose in Africa is going way off course.

However I've dealt with your immeasurable stupidity in the past, and I know that such a simple thing as actually reading someone's post in its entirety and getting the whole picture is an impossiblity for you. You just take one statement out of context and endlessly bitch about it.

I'm not going to shit around with you, good night.

I was speaking idiomatically.

knkwzrd - The british, however, were primary responsible for setting up the slave trade which provided the American colonies with slaves.

Yamam - In an American History class, there is no need to go in depth with African culture. African-American culture? Sure. That's part of American history.

kat - There's a simple matter of ratios here which you and several other people are completely missing. American history is LARGELY white-based. European history. African culture is part of American history, yes - but there is no reason for it to be some huge massive focus because a few radicals can't get past the fact that their ancestors of 150+ years ago were enslaved. The development of African culture in Africa is such a far out loose end that there's no point in even covering it in an American History class, where the primary focus should be on AMERICA.

I'm not denying the importance of blacks in American history.

I am saying that there is no reason to put as much emphasis on it as some people want to.

Nobody is shoving 'white' history down anyone's throats. They are teaching AMERICAN history, which proportionately has much more to do with europeans, as I just noticed Gwaehir mentioned.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

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Look, my whole point was that we are putting far too much emphasis on parts of American history that just WERE NOT important enough to justify the amount of time we spend on them. Sure the native americans were cool, it's neat to learn about their customs, government, etc - but that has little bearing on the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, which didn't really exist until the Declaration of Independance, and the events leading up to that separation. There isn't any need to spend an entire month studying native americans in a class about American History. A brief summary is enough.

Same with African History. There isn't any point. African History doesn't really meld at all with US History until the slave trade, thus, there isn't any need to talk about it in an American History class.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by a lurker

Oh wait, now I remember you, DarkLink2135. You're the guy way back when that thought cars aren't worshipped by white people in America.

BE CAREFUL, MINORITIES ARE DIFFERENT.

What the FUCK are you talking about.

I never said that.

I don't think that.

That wasn't even my point nor something I ever even touched on. Way to bring in a completely unrelated topic.

And now I remember you. You were the guy that thinks a black guy and a white girl aren't going to have any differences arising from culture.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Devo

Are you trying to tell me West African culture did not arise in the South, particularly in Lousiana and New Orleans? I guess you are unaware of the voodoo religion.

I'm not talking about West African culture. I'm talking about AFRICAN culture, you dumbfuck. As in, the continent of AFRICA. West African culture has much to do with American History. AFRICAN culture does not have much to do with American History.

I just about didn't include that redundant clause, but I didn't want to give you any reason to start up another bitch storm.

This is the second time in 10 minutes you have failed to actually read through a post.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Devo

You mean pretty much ignore anyone who isn't of European/Caucasian male descent like we currently do.

You have be the most fucking stupid person I have ever met in my life. I'm not even going to give you the dignity of responding to your shit anymore. Way to completely miss the point.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by knkwzrd

The idea in teaching these is that they were precursors to the United States. An important part of understanding the history of any nation is knowing the things that caused that nation to come about. You certainly aren't arguing against learning about European colonial life, but I'll be damned if that wasn't pre 1776.

American Colonial life is part of what caused our nation to come about. It existed HERE. In MAINLAND America. A fairly large part of the whole deal, but that's also something I think we spend a bit too much time studying.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by kat

If you want to fucking talk proportions, PROPORTIONALLY men and women are ~50/~50 in this nation. Why are American history textbooks like 99% about men?

Yeah I'm sure men are far more important and do a lot more shit than women.

Accomplishments by women have been largely ignored in the past, or they took on the name of a man so they could recieve those accomplishments. Part of it is that we just don't know how much women did.

But also, by raw numbers, men have done a lot more in American History. That's not to deny the importance of women in American History, that's just simple fact. Men were just in better positions to do so because of the low position of women at that time in history.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Devo

It was an example actually of African culture influencing "American culture", I guess you're too busy trolling to realize it.

Explain why the hell African culture needs to have an in-depth explanation in an American History class.

West African culture? Sure, plays a major part in a lot of American culture.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by a lurker

You don't even know history, who are you to say what's important and what's not? you think some religious pissing contest in England is actually important to American history. I mean christ.

What the hell does this have to do with anything?

What's important is what helped this nation arise to the point where it is today. And I'm sorry, but black culture is not as major of a part of that as what you want to think it is. Where our nation started was with a disagreement with england over religous rights. Pilgrims came here, founded a colony, eventually got pissed off at england, won our independance. In short. Obviously there's a shitload more in between there, but I'm going to assume you hopefully know all that and that I don't need to repeat 100 years of history.

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Then there's no need for European history at all, since we're teaching a vaccuum.

Native Americans are part of America. Westward expansion? Interactions with the first settlers? European history which needs to be known to explain certain actions by Americans needs to be a part of curriculum. I'm with you (at least I think I am) though on saying that we do place too much emphasis on pre-american history.

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Now you're just cherrypicking, eskimo.

No. How on earth are you going understand the need for the Declaration of Independence if you don't know about the tensions beforehand? That's very much a part of how America arose.

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America started on the backs of slaves.

America started with the deaths of militiamen in the revolutionary war. Regardless, I hope you don't honestly think I think we shouldn't learn about slavery in American history classes. It's a large part of what America was, and what some people seem to want to keep it as today.

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Still want you to tell me what you know about African history and culture. Go ahead and be as lengthy as you want. Doublespace if it makes you feel better.

Read a fucking book if you want to know about it.

I know African history as it pertains to America. I don't give a shit about how Kenya arose, it has nothing to do with America.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by a lurker

YOU ARE EDUCATED RETARDED.

And you have no fucking brains.

Please, explain to me why the hell I need to spend a week learning about AFRICAN history in an AMERICAN history class.

West African culture is an entirely different story. It is something that EXISTED IN AMERICA. Something with a DIRECT effect on American culture.

Learn the difference between the two.

Originally Posted by Yamamanama

You'll be surprised about how much Africa and America have to do with each other. Especially in the later half of the 20th century.

Definitely so. But I'm talking about early American history .

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by kat

So you're a racist AND a sexist. How do the girls keep their hands off you.

I'm racist and sexist simply for acknowledging the FACT that men and europeans play a larger part in American history than women or minorities?

Get a dictionary. Look up racist. Look up sexist.

Racism and Sexism are actively discriminating against people simply because of their race and sex, respectively.

Realizing that men and europeans proportionately have a larger role in our history, and wanting our history classes as a result to spend an equally proportionate time learning about this isn't sexist or racist.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Devo

Do you even know the difference between "America" and "the United States"? I'll give you a hint, it has nothing to do with spelling.

I use the words interchangably. God forbid I actually do something the rest of the fucking country does.

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Originally Posted by a lurker

If you believe that cock and bull about pilgrims, you don't know a damn thing about history.

Do you honestly think that a whole new landmass ripe for the taking wouldn't attract other kinds of visitors, just a cult of people who hate sex and niggers? I mean christ.

The spanish and the french among others.

What became political America started with that colony, which is why it is given focus. The disagreements with those Puritans and England basically just grew until the Revolutionary war erupted.

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But you don't want us teaching about the settlers before whitey, the tensions between them and the europeans; you don't want us teaching about the slave trade outside of America and how it impacted America. I don't know why you're so against education, maybe it takes funding away from auto class (lol whitey car worship).

You haven't been reading any of my posts.

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America existed before those men were a twinkle in their fathers' eyes.

I'm talking about political America. America as a country. I assume you just mean the land.

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So I'm justified in assuming you know fuck-all about African history? No wonder you think it's not important in understanding American history or colonial politics.

You are missing the point. The point there is no point in learning about how a bunch of fucking tribes in Africa killed eachother in why in an American history course.

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Okay, honestly, listen to me here: America was a colonized continent, right? And so was Africa during the same time frame. DO YOU THINK THERE MIGHT BE POSSIBLY SOME RELEVANT PARALELLS BETWEEN TWO COLONIZED AND OPPRESSED CONTINENTS DURING THE SAME ERA OF TIME POSSIBLY?

Gee, you think that just might be the SLAVE TRADE? Something I've repeatedly emphasized should be taught in American History courses? Or have you been too busy blowing your top to read what I've been saying for the past hour?

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No, you don't, because you're stupid and you're a realist.

Fixed.

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Can you tell me about West Africa; the culture, the history, the location?

Africans were brought here direct from Africa due to the slave trade. Slave traders stripped most of their cultural identity from them basically causing them to have to re-create their own unique culture. Most of this developed in the deep south. A different African-American culture developed in the North due to different ideals, beliefs, practices, etc, even after the conclusion of the civil war when freed slaves migrated to the North.

Fuck this. I'm not here to give you a history lesson. What do you want me to say, that they are all a bunch of fucking niggers with huge lower lips that like spicy cajun food and fried chicken? Would that satisfy you? Would that make you more secure, to think that I'm a racist?

Whatever makes you happy.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by a lurker

Apologies. For some reason I heard West Africa and made a completely illogical leap to the southern united states. Late night brain farts =/.

If you are learning about American history, in a standard 1 year high school course, all you really need to know about West Africa is that that is primarily where we got our slave labor from.

If we are talking about a college course for a history major, maybe a little more knowledge would be called for.

I was under the impression we were just talking about basic American history.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by kat

You said yourself that women had an important role in American history, why aren't they portrayed more then? Instead they are barely mentioned and the instances they are, it's only a sentence or two.

Am I happy about this? No. And it isn't a sentence or two. Usually its a small separate section sandwiched between everything else. It should just be intergrated with the rest of the sections. There isn't any need to separate important American women just because they are women.

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The fact that you stubbornly insist that men and europeans have a larger role in history shows your innate ignorance on history as truth.

They have a larger role in American history, and men in general have a larger role in other country's histories also. You are so pissed off about historic injustice towards women that you can't just acknowledge this simple fact.

I and I hope noone else is denying the importance of women in american history. I don't see why its just a huge injustice just to acknowledge that due to the social status of women in the past, it has pretty much made it close to impossible for them to have a massive part in history until recent times.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Magi

How old are you son?

19 1/2. I took my last American history class my junior year of high school.

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No, we got music, food and religion from there too. Unless you conveniently ignored my post about Voodoo again.

African food, music, and religion as part of mainstream American culture derived from African Americans.

You are getting into the realm of World History now.

Is there any problem with talking about stuff in West Africa in an American history class? Hell no. Is there a problem with spending an entire class going in depth as to all the specifics of history in West Africa? I believe so. There are much larger parts of American history.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by a lurker

I don't.

Look, either Political America (THE UNITED STATES you moron, it already has a name) started with the Revolutionary War or it didn't; if it did, then there's no need to give preference to European history, just teach pre-Revolutionary American history.

Thank you. At least we are on the same playing field now. I don't know where you went to school, but we didn't learn about European history in American History class. Did we learn about pre-revolutionary American history? Sure. Did we mention some of the stuff going on in mainland england at the time? Hell yes, they had a direct effect on the soon-to-be United States.

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Are slaves the only commodity Europe raped from Africa? Also: do you think there are no political paralells between the two, because damn

There isn't enough of a bearing on American History to put a big emphasis on it.

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West Africa is a place in America. there are many black people living there. They enjoy "soul food" and they preach voodoo. They sing very good well.

WHO is a racist nigger????

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Originally Posted by Denicalis

You need to be much more specific in your wording, mate. Women had very small pressures on political history, but a massive impact on social history. Which is just as important as political history in explaining how a society worked. I could sit back and explain to you how the Muinane tribe of South America organise their tribal government, but without explaining the societal organisation, it would just be placements and large movements with no context. Until you can put those political movements into a contextualized surrounding, they're just facts in a book. Your problem is that you seem to only look at the large, obvious bits of history as relevant. You're looking at the peak and missing the iceberg, mate. History is about context, and you're just giving it concept.

Touche, mate .

I was thinking of political history rather than social history. Socially women are a massive part of American history, and I spent a good amount of time in my junior American History class learning about Women's suffrage, and other rights women won for themselves.

I'm not saying smaller, less obvious bits of history aren't releveant or important. I've repeated this over and over, yet nobody seems to catch this:

These smaller, less obvious bits do NOT need to have the same amount of importance and time put on them as the large, obvious bits of history.

Double Post:

Originally Posted by a lurker

You don't even know what the history is, though. Why do you feel an authority in these matters? Why do you get a say?



You think white people don't worship cars. That's pretty niggardly to me.

Are you actually trying to tell me that political ties between Africa and Europe have a large enough impact on American history to require more than a passing sentence in a textbook?

Something like that is common sense. I don't need to be Mr. History Channel TV Historian to tell you that isn't as important as the Civil war.

FELIPE NO

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I will also ask, why don't you feel it's relevant to discuss pre-whitey settlers while discussing American history?

Fuck you and your 3 brain cells.

Go to bed and then re-read my posts when you have a scrap of intelligence. The current emphasis put on native american history, government, culture, etc, is not called for in current American history curriculum.

Not everything is black and white, all or nothing.

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You think white people don't worship cars. That's pretty niggardly to me.

I never once said this, nor do I think this. You have the reading comprehension of a fucking brick. I'm not even sure how you could even get such an assinine idea out of what I said.

kat - I'm not sure where you live, but we spent a good deal of time on Women's suffrage, women's involvement in prohibition, etc, in my class. If your teacher is just passing that stuff by like it isn't important, bring it up. Or if it's too late for that, then yeah, you have a reason to be pissed off at that matter .

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And with this, you speak nonsense since you just admitted your last class was 3 years ago.

Maybe other people are different, but stuff I learn in history class doesn't just magically disappear from my brain.

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Goodnight, I'm done here. I'm down to endlessly repeating myself because I can't get certain points through lurker's and devo's skull.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by kat

Don't fucking patronize me, especially since you're the bigot in this scenario.

Why, because I have a bunch of fucking idiots who can't realize that when I say that the current emphasis on subject A isn't called for, I don't mean that we shouldn't learn about it at all?

Because I'm realistic enough to realize that men played a larger role in history in women? That isn't being a bigot, that's admitting to the truth, and not being a bitch because I'm pissed about how little women are mentioned in a stupid textbook.

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And I'm really amazed you still remember the layout of your history book from 3 years ago that woman's suffrage was in a box off to the top right side on page 392.

Way to take what I say out of fucking context. That seems to be the rule of thumb on this forum.

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makeupbullshit(rand(5));
if (braincellcount < 200 )
putwordsinmouth(rand(5));

It isn't that difficult to remember that I learned a fair bit about women's suffrage.

Jam it back in, in the dark.