Why is the murder rate in the US so high?

It's tempting to just throw the problem at gun ownership and say that's it. I think that's not quite on the mark, personally. The US's problem is that our gun laws are too lax. Our background checks aren't worth a shit. I can get a handgun license at 21 that will never require me to renew it again. WTF?

The right to own a gun is in the constitution and that's not going to change, but that doesn't mean we need to be passing out free guns with the purchase of a 12-pack.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Night Phoenix

American gun laws are hella restrictive short of outright banning firearms.

The problem isn't gun ownership -- criminals, by definition, don't follow the law, so stopping American citizens who abide by the law from owning weapons or making it harder for them to get them won't stop a bitch ass thing.

In order to support your point, you'd have to show that a substantial portion of these gun murders were done with legally purchased firearms.

Compared with other countries we are insanely lax - of course, I do live in the Midwest, so it's hard to say comparatively what things are like in coastal cities. Here in Indiana though there's more ways to get a gun than I'm able to count.

I don't mean to argue for more gun control...but Indiana at least could definitely use smarter gun control. I basically just have to show up and say that I'm not a felon and a day later I can go out and legally get a firearm - provided the vendor actually cares that I'm licensed to own one.

A lot of murder crimes are done with guns - and I don't think we need to necessarily do more blanket restrictions on ownership...well, you know where I'm going with this, already covered it.

Even more legal restraints would make it difficult to obtain a gun illegally. I know ultimately it's not going to stop a criminal who wants to kill somebody, but I can't imagine it wouldn't help at all.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Yamigarasu

Thats not true, you can't buy firearms here, well, you can, but the process involves you being screened by the federal police, a 4 months waiting, and you have to actually proove by means without a doubt that you need a firearm.

Yet, the results are show by the OP, Phoenix is right, felons don't need permits.

Then like I said, it definitely varies from state to state.

I'm not pretending that felons don't have means to obtain firearms. Very few gun murders are committed with guns that are licensed to the killer, I'd imagine. But that's no reason to make it easy for everyone to pick up a gun.

But like I said, this is just how it is where I live. Most of America probably has pretty sane gun laws I guess, at least in comparison to here.

I agree with Phoenix though in that our culture is a lot more violent than other cultures.

I usually laugh at how Europe is a bunch of pansies when it comes to movie violence, and how the US cringes at the mention of the word 'sex'. But in reality I'd say a lenient attitude towards sex is a helluva lot more healthy for everyone than a lenient attitude towards violence.

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Just for anyone who is interested (and hopefully this will help explain some of my attitudes about gun laws):

Indiana Gun Laws:

Rifles and Shotguns

* Permit to purchase rifles and shotguns? No.
* Registration of rifles and shotguns? No.
* Licensing of owners of rifles and shotguns? No.
* Permit to carry rifles and shotguns? No.

Handguns

* Permit to purchase handgun? No.
* Registration of handguns? No.
* Licensing of owners of handguns? No.
* Permit to carry handguns? Yes.

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In addition, we've got a lifetime handgun permit, you can buy any gun you want just by showing up at a gun show, no background checks, permits, or anything needed. We used to have a seven day waiting period before you could buy a firearm, but that was done away with in the late 1990's. You have to go through a Federal background check, but only a state background check for handguns. This means shotguns, rifles, and most assault weapons not only require no permit or license to carry, you aren't checked at a state level for them (which I believe is a lot more efficient than Federal checks).

The only thing I'm glad Indiana does have is the law that lets you shoot trespassers on sight when you feel you are threatened. The whole "your home is your castle" doctrine-law-thingy.

I don't know where you live but here, if you want a gun, even a handgun, it's a piece of cake.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I wasn't so much as going for the goal of stopping illegally obtained firearms (although in Indiana there's almost no such thing) as I reversing the current situation here (where it's easier to get a gun legally than illegally).

Looking around though it seems Indiana is pretty unique in this boat as far as lax gun laws =/. I thought the situation was same everywhere.

How ya doing, buddy?

@Brady:
I guess I can see your point here. If gun crimes are going to be committed, its easier to have them solved when the gun used can be traced. I still don't think it's sane to allow such easy obtainment of said firearms. I've got a history of epilepsy & tourettes syndrome, and while I've had no symptoms of either for the past 8 or so years, I don't need to show that. I've got two pretty serious mental disorders that have both been professionally diagnosed, that would make me a potential liability. The way they mix together means they usually trigger when I'm angry, amplifying those emotions and making me unnaturally strong. Not a good thing if I want to go out and get a firearm.

(I just re-read that and lol...no I don't turn green as well. Probably has something to do with massively increased adrenaline flow.)

I don't need to show proof that I no longer suffer from the symptoms. I can just fill out the forms and get one.

Ideally I guess you would want a situation where there's a proper balance in the difficulty for a law-abiding citizen to get a gun. I definitely don't think Indiana has that equilibrium.

@Vinjeux:

Exactly what I was saying. The only real law requires you to have a permit to carry a handgun outside of your legal place of residence. Most firearm dealers will require you to show a license in order to purchase - but you can show up to any gun show (of which there are plenty) to get around all gun laws.

I can't provide links as I believe I read this in my local newspaper, but I remember reading several stories where most gun crimes committed in neighboring states, most noticeably Illinois, were committed with guns bought in Indiana. Even if we aren't necessarily ourselves a higher liability, the ease with which one can get a gun here does make us a hazard to nearby states.

I also see the problem with the trespassing law. It has potential for abuse...but I also should not have to wait until me or my family could potentially be shot and killed by a trespasser to fire back.

And I DEFINITELY agree with your point about maturity & it's probable effects on America's high murder rate. I'm constantly irritated when I realize out of all my high school friends, me and maybe one other guy are the only two that have actually matured. I mean obviously I'm not completely an adult, I don't mean to say that, but still, I hope you get the gist of what I'm saying.

So many of the gun crimes here today seem to be related with a person who wasn't able to solve a simple problem in their life, they lacked the maturity to make good decisions. Nobody does enough to try and make you think about consequence before action. We are very much a "do now and make up for it later" culture.

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I am definitely a huge supporter of the right to bear arms, but at least here in Indiana, we aren't applying some common sense with that right. Screening isn't going to catch every last person, but at the very least we can eliminate some liabilities. You can't control the uncontrollable (someone steals a gun and then commits murder) so don't try - but at least try to control what you do have a handle on. There's no reason to place a gun in the hand of a person with severe bi-polar disorder, or with a history of violent crimes, etc.

EDIT:

I want to remark on what you said about people kissing each other on the cheek. In the USA the norm is to have a very wide bubble of personal space. You keep yourselves distant and away from other people, away from touch. People breach that bubble and you are very uncomfortable. I'd say perhaps that impersonable-ness in American culture has a small part to do with our higher murder rate as compared with countries that are very up close and personal with even complete strangers. It goes straight down to the nature vs nurture psychology.

Sorry if some of this is incoherent. My roommate is babbling on about something that I really don't care about making it hard to concentrate and I'm about ready to kill him. .

I was speaking idiomatically.