"Find Jesus"

My own beliefs aside, the reason the focus is on Jesus, is that he kind of revamped the way the Jews thought things. Thus you had the branch from Judaism - Christianity which believed the teachings of Christ (or God the Son), and the Jews, who stuck more with the teachings of God the Father, because they didn't believe he was the Son.

A lot of what I'm trying to say can be found in the Sermon on the Mount, in the Gospel of Matthew. Things like (paraphrased) "You have heard that it was said, "do not kill your neighber." But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother is in danger of the fires of hell."

I'm pretty sure that doesnt mean simple anger (I mean Jesus even got pissed off at people) but probably harboring hatred & grudges & death wishes. So he kind of made things more down on a heart & soul level than just a physical level.

I know that's not the only way he revamped thinking, but that was just an example.

But regardless, that's why Jesus has the focus more than God.

I kind of disagree with the idea of the Trinity anyway. I think it puts far too much an idea of polytheism in people's heads. If they really are one person, why the idea of the Trinity? Why is it needed? If God is all powerful, why is it so hard to imagine that some aspect of him (Christ) came down to die for everyone's sins? So I guess I agree with the idea of the Trinity in principle, but not in practice. It's treated too much like they are completely separate entities, and I think it's more like three different functions of God.

Hmm. Interesting subject, regardless.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Crash Landon

If the church is suffering due to arrogance and mistrust, it is these things of which the church itself is guilty, and not its people to each other. The Christian church, so bound in its archaic ways, has failed to adapt to the modernization of this world. Where once many phenomena could only be explained as acts of God, now they've been explained by science. Instead of celebrating this, instead of thanking God for science, empyrical thought is denounced. How ridiculous! By distancing itself from our increased awareness of basic, scientific truths, it's Christianity that seems remote and out-of-touch with this realm.

You hit the nail right on the head here - that's the main problem I have with all the churches I have ever attended. It's like sitting in a time bubble, where time stopped somewhere in the 70s or 80s, and they think that there's some huge war between religion and science, and there can't be any reconciliation. IMHO they can fit quite well together, and should, but as you said, instead of thanking God for human ingenuity, scientific thinking, learning, and understanding, they sit around and say that such things are evil and designed to distance us from the real God.

I don't want to sound like a thumper here, but in my personal experience, science has only ever drawn me closer in my faith. That's not meant to be some sort of religious plea for everyone here to get saved, so don't take that the wrong way, that's meant to provide an example as to how horribly mixed up the church is.

There are many different ways of thinking that provide many different world views, and sometimes people can look at the same thing and come to two very different conclusions. The fact of the matter is, Christians need to realize that some people are perfectly happy the way they are, and that no amount of scare tactics are going to get them "saved." I think that kind of defeats the whole purpose of salvation and is quite anti-biblical at that - if you just believe in the resurrection so you don't go to Hell. Not a strong foundation.

And I think many Christians would do well to dwell on the possibility that they may be wrong. I believe I'm right, sure, but I also wrestle with the fact that there is a possibility that I'm wrong. It's how you live your life with that in mind that really defines who you are. If I'm only being Christian to avoid Hell, or other simple & base reasons, that's going to show. If I'm a Christian because of something deeper, I'm probably going to be satisfied with what the world views as "restrictions & rules" and that's going to show up in light of the idea that I may be wrong about the afterlife, and the whole spiritual realm.

I've especially seen this come out in religious debates on this forum and others - those who can't deal with that fact that they are wrong deal with other people, and challenges towards their faith very poorly, and often make complete idiots of themselves.

Just ask yourself: If your beliefs are wrong, could you still be happy with how you are living as a result of your religion? Are you just doing it to get rewarded in the end?

Wow. Sorry to fly off the handle and get preachy there. It's just something I've been dwelling on recently.

There's nowhere I can't reach.