Hello! I want some opinions about my novel in progress...

Uhm, right, well then. Aardark has (I assume) read your novel and considered it worthy of his time to comment. I shall follow in suit, placing my firm faith in his judgement. Let's see, now ...

[To be edited in after I've typed it all up. I've accidentally pressed the enter key, and there's no going back now. May take a few hours, depending on my attention span.]

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Keep in mind though, that you have said novel. You cannot go back on that, and because of it, I will treat this text as a proper novel. Anyways, let’s begin.

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Gaia

Is this an online game? Is it? Because you don't actually expect people adults to pay money for a book based on an online game?

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Spinning wildly in space, tilting at about 25 degrees, third planet from Sappho, the planet Gaia was practically dying.

As Aardark has noted, you need to set a frame of reference for the planet's tilt.
Secondly, the sentence structure is butchered. I cannot read that in a single breath. It feels like you are showing information down my throat when I have barely begun reading this novel. Start easy, and add information later.
As well, planets do not die. Consider your word choices carefully.

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There it sat, the seas polluted, the rivers likewise; air gradually rejuvenating itself from thousands of years of over industrialization and the moons following in its footsteps.

Planets do not sit. Humans sit. If the seas and the rivers are polluted, then you shouldn’t need a separate thought to mention that. Speak about its “bodies of water” or perhaps more simply just “water”. The sentence seems inelegant the way you’ve written it. And what’s this about the air? Slowly rejuvenating? Why did you change stride mid-sentence? First everything was dying, and then “oh, no, changed my mind – everything’s going to be allright lol”. Stick to your train of through firmly. A sentence for a thought is a good rule of thumb.

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Gaia has seen its golden age, and has seen it not last long at all

“And has seen it not last long at all”.
Right then. Have you actually tried to read this text out loud? No? Well, I’m recommending you should. I have an inkling that it would be a most enlightening experience.
You need to remember that people are going to read your writing – not analyze it. When one reads, they expect a smooth flow of information. They don’t expect to get choked on words placed haphazardly after a comma.

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She has seen her beautiful face marred by deforesting and smelled the horrid stench of her dying offspring.

I can follow the metaphor up the deforestation bit, but what’s this about the planet’s offspring? Care to elaborate how a planet can reproduce? Or is this another one of those things that “sound right, but who cares if they don’t make sense”?

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Of course, who cares for a planet?

Well, perhaps a Teletubby should! Who knows!
If you wish to write informally, you need to do so during the entire text – you cannot just randomly start anywhere you feel like because you’re bored.

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It only supplies the every need, and gives all else it has to offer. Who cares? It’s not as if it will ever STOP giving. It’s not as if it will turn against its greedy children without their knowing.

My, oh, my, aren’t we assertive!
Perhaps I ought to look up to you, oh great narrator. Perhaps I ought to worship you, and possibly kiss your literary ass.

Or maybe I am a tad offended by your callous attitude and prose that reads like a common bar story.

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Some people cared. They had to. They had no choice but to care.

Perhaps. Perhaps you ought to write. Write, oh, yes write. Write, and write well. Write like this. This, I say. Say, I, this. This, so that you may be clear. Clear, oh, yes, so clear. As to your seriousness. Oh, the grave seriousness. Seriousness of your intent, you see. Oh, the glorious intent! Whatever should we do without it. *sigh*

Just … don’t. Stop making a fool of yourself. You are writing a novel, not a cartoon. If you are making a movie script – come out and say it. If you would like a movie script to be based on your book, come out and say it. If you would like an anime series to be based on your book – COME OUT AND SAY IT. This faggotry will not fly with anyone that has a brain.

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It wasn’t their job, they just enjoyed living the life they lived and would do anything to keep it that way.

Heh, yes. People are usually motivated by the duty they owe to their job. Oh, yes – I must have sex with this woman, because – man, what if I lose my job? That would be horrendous!

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They didn’t live on Gaia; they lived somewhere else, somewhere far away

Perhaps, *gasp*, in a GALAXY far far away?
Oh, my!
It does matter where they are from. You may not care, but it makes for a lousy flow of information if you do not specify.

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. Those that did live on Gaia didn’t give five sars worth whether or not the planet lived or died. They had options. They had inhabitable moons that could sustain them in case of an emergency, and best of all, they could get there in a matter of minutes.

People are the same people everywhere. You can’t expect Gaians (not all of them, anyway) to be cruel and emotionless about their home planet. A normal person tends to care for his or her residence. With this sentence, you have immediately made me lose any kind of emotional attachment I may ever feel for a Gaian.

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The King cared. He cared a lot, but not enough to do anything about it.

I like pie. I do. I just don’t like eating it. Not all the time, anyway. Some of the time. Maybe. Yeah. Ok. If I’m paid well enough.
Yeah. That works.

This is not the way to make a character seem irresolute.

….


If you’re going to write, you better have a thick skin son. Whatever the hell this thing is, I am not going to waste any more of my time with it. Suffice to say, you need some major editing.

There are some published authors on the board. If you are serious about this novel, I would suggest sending them a polite PM, asking for their sincere critiques.

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I'm going to go on a limb and say that Neus is being a bit of an ass.

First of all, good sir, please spell my name correctly. I am not oblivious to the inner workings of the English language, and have chosen not to capitalize the first letter of my name for a reason. I only ask that you respect this.

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I'm not saying "don't listen to him." But I am saying that it is delicate process to "constructively criticize" and that Neus would do well to preserve his tact.

Delicate process? DELICATE PROCESS?
My good sir, have you ever written? Have you ever recieved a critique?
From personal experience (yes, plenty of it), and from speaking with my friends and other authors, I can tell you that I am most greateful when someone takes the time to write a scathing opinion on one of my works. In fact, I thank the said person for devoting their attention and talent to help me.
As you have seen, agreatguy6's post above, he was greateful as well. Had I malicious intent while writing the critique, rest assured, good sir, agreatguy6 would have replied in turn.

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A simple "this references an online game" would suffice. Also, who said he expects people to pay money for a book based on an online game? Assuming motive is not a good way to criticize another individual.

People generally do pay money for novels. Unless they get them from a library, an exchange of currency for text almost always occurs.

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It should be well noted that to “die” is a term loosely used to describe the connotative expiration of something that, commonly, is alive.

You're perfectly correct. And you would do well to recognise my implication that the word "die" in that sentence was neither descriptive nor informative.
Perhaps he could speak of decaying forests, of arid mountains and lifeless rivers. Simply stating that a planet is "dying" is inadequate - the reader does not understand exactly what is happening. Thus, I spoke: "consider your word choices carefully".

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I happened to read it myself and find nothing of error. In fact, I have a tendency to not read aloud when reading a book. I'm inclined to believe that doing so bothers other people. As such, I had no problem interpreting the meaning of that particular passage, since it is easy enough to understand.
But perhaps that's just me...

Oh, no, good sir. I do not mean to say that one should read books aloud. In fact, as you've stated, it would probably bother many a people around the reader. Not to mention, it would also probably frustrate the reader because people generally read slower when pronouncing each word aloud.

I meant that the author should read his text aloud so that he may better understand how the audience will read his novel. You see, when an author writes, he becomes very familiar with the intent of each of his sentences, and cannot see their imperfections. A good method to avoid glancing over those mistakes is to read the text out loud.

When the author does this, he becomes acutely aware of run-on sentences and improper grammer - the sentence just doesn't sound right. It doesn't flow, and it requires an odd intake of air to speak completely.

For example, try speaking this:

"The yellow road wound around the mountain like a snake, coiling and never ending so that the poor traveller had to take many stops where he rested for the night and replenished his supplies before continuing along."

Of course this is a run-on sentence - it rambles on and on. In more subtle examples, you would not notice this by simply reading. When this sentence is read aloud, you should hit a verbal "stumbling block" around the "so that the poor traveller" part. It alerts one to the presence of improper style and gramar.

So, returning to agreatguy6's original sentence,
"Gaia has seen its golden age, and has seen it not last long at all."
Can you honestly tell me that you can speak it out loud, without problems and completely naturally? I find that the part after the comma is impossible to read in the same breath. It just doesn't flow. And any other reader would notice this as well.
Given enough of these "reading stumbling blocks", a reader will put the novel, exhasparated and bored.

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I like how you make it sound as if agreatguy6 is thinking "this sounds right, but who cares if it doesn't make any sense?".
There is little to be said here. I will simply refer you to my first analysis.

It is a rather reasonable assumption to make because agreatguy6's metaphor makes very little sense. "Offspring" was a poor word choice because of the way the sentence is structured. One would expect these offspring to be similar to the of the first part of the sentence - a large, real part of nature (ie, a forest). Perhaps inhabitants or citizens would have been more fitting.

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Actually, Orson Scott Card, throughout his novel "Ender's Game", constantly switches between first and omnipotent third person, thereby assigning character bias.

Ah, you see, constantly is the key word here. agreatguy6 has used an informal voice in a single paragraph in the entire novel so far, and it seems very out of place.

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If I were the author, I'd find it insulting how often you assume my motive.

The problem here is that you've probably never been an author. Speaking for personal experience, I can tell you that I am very thankful and glad when a person devotes their time to point out my logical fallacies and style inconsistencies. You fail to understand that it is not the job of a criticizer to encourage the writer. Our job is to provide as harsh and fair of an opinion in the hopes that the writer fixes these errors.
Ultimately we want his audience to recieve the book well. If an audience member stumbles a thousand times through the book and cannot make sense of the plot - do you think they will pay for another book of the same author? Of course not.

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In your criticism here you claim that the author does it because he is "bored", in essence that he does it for no reason whatsoever.

*nods*
Exactly. I do not believe he has chosen to switch to an informal voice for any specific reason. Perhaps he has not acquired or honed a strict style or he is simply bored. Either way, it just doesn't fly.

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...
You know, I can only find this passage to be "callous" and insulting if I view myself as a "greedy child" of Gaia, since it clearly affronts said people. Since I don't happen to live in Gaia, I simply see it as a statement about Gaians and not about myself. That, aside from the fact that I don't consider myself to be a "greedy child" of Earth, even.

I am mocking his informal tone. So far, the rest of the novel has been written in a voice quite unlike the one presented in this passage. This sudden change is unnerving and it distracts one from the message.

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...
Somehow, it sounds like you think that the author ISN'T writing a novel, that instead, he's tricked us into believing that he is, for his own devious mischief.
I still fail to see why it appears that you're so insulted by this, neus.

Well, had he specified that this was, in fact, not a novel, but simply a short story horrendously based off Hamlet, I would not have wasted my time to read it. Novels, as a form of communication, are well written and enjoyable to read. This was not the case with "And The Poet Wrote In Blank Verse" and I am rightfully outraged.

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I happen to believe that in this particular sentence, where they live doesn't really matter. In fact, I think specifying such information would actually spoil the sentence.
"They didn't live on Gaia; they lived somewhere else, on Nebula266 in sector 4 of the Alpha quadrant. Because it matters. And because you should know."

The sentence in question is: "They didn’t live on Gaia; they lived somewhere else, somewhere far away".
As it stands, the sentence seems more like a beggining to a children's story - it would be ridiculous to find it in a novel. A casual mention of their origin would have enhanced the sentence.
"They lived on Phobos, millions of light years away, but still close enough to care."
While his sentence seemed childish for not being informative enough, yours seems to mock the reader by providing too much information. A balanced approach enhances the sentence and does not unnecessarily draw the focus on itself.

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Somehow, I don't think you're supposed to feel any emotional attachment to the Gaians, unless specific characters are indicated by the author.

I suppose emotional attachement was poor word choice on my part. I meant to say that agreatguy6's sentence colors the Gaians so callous that they do not appear to be human at all. There is a difference between a great lack of caring, respect and love and being inhuman. What's more, he would do well to explain the reason behind this attitude. Perhaps their society is so technologically advanced that they can simulate a healthy world with less effort than it takes to keep their home planet in a healthy state?
This is a perfect example of the old addage - "Don't tell me - show me". He shouldn't state that the Gaians don't care - he should show through examples and let the reader come to his own conclusion.

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I'm inclined to believe that the portrayal of the king's irresolution isn't the point of the passage.Such a trait for what appears to be an important character, more often than not, takes more than a single sentence. I am not readily going to assume that the author thinks that a single sentence suffices to describe a trait of personality that a major character harbors.

No, I do not believe it is his primary intent to color the king as irresulute, but it definitely given some attention. By elaborating (informatively, briefly and with proper style) on this aspect of King's personality, we would understand the motivation of his actions - actions that impact the very course of the plot, and are not secondary in any way.

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As you can see, I chose to instead criticize Neus, and not the written piece. This is because I find it far more interesting to analyze human behavior than it is to analyze works of fiction, which in themselves ultimately have a statement to say about human behavior. This is because a work of fiction is written by humans, for humans. If it does not apply to us as humans, the tendency is for us not to care.

I also didn't criticize the work because I'm all tired from analyzing Neus. So maybe I'll criticize it later.

Maybe.

Good sir, you have contributed nothing to this thread. In no way have you provided constructive criticism to the work at hand. You have chosen instead to criticize a person who has, unlike you, donated their time, care and attention to the topic at hand.

You've shown that you care more to troll a thread than to follow its intended meaning of providing an opinion to agreatguy6's writing.

Had I been agreatguy6, I would be offended and insulted by your attitude. You've chosen to devote your attention, in his thread, to a completely irrelevant matter, and have completely neglected his plea for help.

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