The 2008 (and 9) weaboos learning Japanese thread *chairs are thrown at miles*

Yee gods, I spent my whole college career studying Japanese (thanks a lot, probably useless Japanese major) and you'd think I have some shockingly good tips to help you with it.

Not really. But you are right in identifying that the best way to learn the language is outside the classroom. You're just not getting enough of it inside the classroom, not because of the teachers, just because of language study in general. But, I was pretty much like you, I had very limited chances to use Japanese outside of the classroom at first. (After my first year of A grades, they started to slip in the second year...) I was only able to stop the slide since I got accepted to study abroad in Japan for a semester. Since I wasn't in an international place like Tokyo, I needed to brush up to well...survive, literally. If you could do that, that would be fantastic, but study abroad isn't for everyone, I know.

Any Japanese language conversation groups/tables at your school? Maybe the study abroad department at your school can pair you with a student from Japan studying at your school? One thing that I was really hesitant to do at first was go to office hours and talk with my teachers in Japanese. After I got back from Japan, I tried to do it more often and the benefits showed in my grades, haha.

Genki is a fine book for learning the grammar and mechanics of the language. But it'll be up to your own power to see how far you go with reading/listening/speaking. There's no real tip other than doing those kanji flash cards, speaking Japanese (speak out what you're reading if you're alone), and listening to natural Japanese speak (try to avoid taking anime as a way to learn Japanese...I suggest Japanese dramas instead. One of my friends called a bunch of Japanese people "omae-tachi", which basically translates to "hey, bitches." When I asked him whey he said that, he said they said it on Naruto. *le sigh*).

If you stick to it, you too, can translate Japanese dramas! (Or at least, try to >_>)

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Little Shithead

True, there's no such thing as "perfect grammar" in a language, however, learning the prescriptive grammar is the only way you'll ever actually be able to form understandable sentences. You can't just combine everything you want any old way, they have to be used in the ways that they are supposed to. This is especially important in formal speaking and in writing (which tends to always be a bit more formal than spoken language.)

I'd love to see you teach any secondary language without first teaching the prescriptive grammar as a basis. We've all heard the "house" analogy a million times, but it works. At least with just the foundation, you can communicate with native speakers, since they all know the basic, formal grammar.

Seconded. As true as it is that you probably won't hear too much of that grammar you read in the books if you're hanging out in casual everyday Japan, you do know that most of the more casual Japanese has come from those standard phrases. (The "casualization" of Japanese has been a big issue with Japanese society for awhile now, with kids using incorrect keigo, shortening a bunch of set phrases, etc.) The foundation exists for a reason, because that's what it is. You learn the basic grammar first, then move your way up.

If you just want to learn a few choice phrases, feel free to buy one of those "casual Japanese" books that will teach you a few fun phrases (I needs to learn how to have sex with Japanese girls!), but really little else about the mechanics of the language. If you want to actually become fluent, which means being able to operate in formal/polite society at times, you're going to have to deal with boring old grammar, especially the much more difficult speaking-only/writing-only grammar points that come in more advanced years.

Oh yeah, if you're worried, most anime fans drop in the first week of the first class of the semester. They quickly realize their anime fandom does not translate into giving appropriate time to actually study the language. Usually by the end of 2nd year, 1st semester, (then you get rid of the anime fans who studied Japanese in high school) you're stuck with people who actually want to learn the Japanese (anime fan or not), not people who wear maid outfits to class (I kid you not) or profess their love for yaoi on a daily basis.

That really happened =(

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Miles

Welcome - Sasuga Japanese Bookstore

Can anyone recommend any decent beginner books in Japanese? You know, ones that are at a grade school level. Even if I can't fully understand it at this point its fine. I just wanna improve my ability to read a bit faster and don't wanna buy a random book thats mostly kanji with no furigana.

Are you looking for more beginner textbooks or actual books in Japanese? I could recommend a few textbooks offhand, not so much on the actual book side.

However, if you're looking for grade school level stuff, I've had tons of fun/practice reading Doraemon manga...they're easy to find and everything in it has furigana. Of course, it's going to be simple (you've gotta start somewhere) but I do like that you do get an exposure to more casual Japanese than you usually would (albeit, little-kid Japanese, but not too far off from more mature casual Japanese). However, I might be biased just because I <3 Doraemon.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Hachifusa

It's like Rollins(?) said about not watching anime but drama series. Definitely, anime is too fantastical in speech to be taken seriously. Think about it for a few seconds... do you actually want to speak like (ack) "Naruto"? If you want to drive the point home, watch the series in English and see how stupid they sound - and realize that whenever you mimic the Japanese, that's how you sound. Although drama series are better, I'd remind the prospective student that in drama shows though they tend to speak correctly in a grammatical sense, and although they use everyday phrases, they do so in a dramatic way. Don't pause too much and glance at the moon and speak with your eyes closed - though this is standard fare in drama series, no one really speaks like that, I promise. In this case, it'd be like speaking like one of those lawyer/doctor/teacher shows on at prime time here. You know how they are very melodramatic in their speech? That is similar to the drama series.

If you can, speak with real, normal people (and if you can swing it, not fellow otaku) from Japan and copy them. Listen to them, even if they want you to speak more "generically" than you would like. I can't pinpoint how many times I made an utter fool of myself by using really ridiculous language. (Case in point: if you're male, please please please avoid the use of super-cool "ore" to speak about yourself for at least a year, and even then be careful. It's just not worth it.)

Finally, give it the attention it deserves. I didn't and as a result barely scraped by my last year. Japanese really will require something like two hours a day of study, and if that's too much for you (i.e. you work outside of school) I'd question the choice. All language learning requires time but Japanese requires learning two new alphabets and a whole slew of kanji that you can become completely overwhelmed.

Yeah, while I recommend drama over anime anyday for actual language practice, of course, you've gotta avoid the overly romantic expressions too. Although I have quite a database of romantic phrases now, I don't think I'll be using them anytime soon...for my money, family (renzoku) dramas, which are more about everyday life are a bit more grounded and better. But I think dramas are a bit later on in your Japanese learning career.

I do enjoy people who use "ore" without really knowing why/when to use it. I, myself, am a "boku" fan, I don't think I could pull off an "ore" without feeling silly.

You also mention the alphabets (hiragana/katakana) and kanji...it's kanji for me that will continue to inhibit my Japanese ability. Alphabets can be memorized given enough time (and you should do this first off), but as you know, kanji by its sheer number will take forever =/ But yes, nothing you can do but flash cards and repetition...there's no real trick here. This is where continual reading helps, you gotta keep the kanji fresh in your mind, otherwise you'll forget.

Originally Posted by Miles

Today I bought a journal from Wal-mart so I can write an entry in Japanese every other day. I can practice what I know now and in future entries I can integrate the new sentence structures and vocabulary words I learn and make longer more detailed entries. This should help me remember older vocab (if I can find ways to use them) as well as help me create sentences faster. I'm hoping in the next 6 months it'll take less time to write out an entry.

I still need to work on my speaking and listening comprehension. We did listening exercises in class yesterday and I did rather poorly. I have to replay a single sentences multiple times before I can get what they said since I'm not used to hearing my vocab words spoken so quickly. Plus when I'm put on the spot in class to make up a sentence to the picture our sensei is holding up my mind often goes blank. There's a Japanese meet-up group in Sacramento and I think I'll try to attend the next meeting and make a few friends I could possibly practice with off meeting hours. I have a vocal test in two weeks and I'm nowhere close to ready. ._.

Good luck with your journal exercise, as I said before, that's the best way. I do think speaking/listening is the toughest to get going in the beginning, but eventually you'll find it will soon surpass your reading/writing (mainly due to kanji at the later levels >_>)

Are you NorCal based? I studied at Berkeley and am actually going to be back for a few weeks in March and May. You're probably at Davis if you're going to Sacramento. If you can make it down to the Bay Area, there's tons of Japanese speaking chances, mainly because they kept advertising them in our classes at UCB.

Oh by the ways people, I recommend this dictionary if you have a DS...it's not quite as powerful as a true Japanese/English electronic dictionary, but it's a really useful dictionary for figuring out kanji since you can draw in the kanji with the stylus.

Buy Kanji Sonomama Rakubiki Jiten (Nintendo DS) - Order Now!

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?