[General Discussion] One. Hundred. Percent.

It depends on the game. Any Zelda game is an example where I strive for completeness, because at no stage does the perfectionism outweigh my enjoyment of the game. It's fun galloping around Hyrule field for long periods of time of not really achieving much besides occasionally adding another heart piece or gold bug to my collection. Just being in Hyrule itself without doing anything, just moving from one place to another, is an enjoyment itself, so having these little aims along the way give me an excuse to do that.

A recent example where I just thought fuck that at the thought of 100% completion is Metroid Prime. Because of the way it's structured, certain places are inaccessable until you get certain items - it's kind of like Zelda in that respect, but where Zelda suceeds and Prime fails is that the Zelda world is like a huge open playground where it's just a joy to move through (I'm repeating myself), whereas Metroid Prime is much more linear A to B to C affair, and it was a chore to get from one place to the next at certain times. I was bored by the mere idea of going back to all those out of the way places and scouring for all those spots which I couldn't access the first time, just for the sake of a nice 100% on the stats screen.

So I'll reiterate my core point, perfectionism is fine as long as it never starts to outweigh my enjoyment of the game. Because at the point, why bother?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Solis

I also can't think of any RPG I've done 100% of everything in since they usually have such a ridiculous amount of sidemissions, save possibly for Panzer Dragoon Saga since it didn't really have many aside from getting all the D-unit parts.

There's also the attaining of an 'EXCELLENT!!' ranking against every enemy in the game, and the collection of all of the games literature. These two things were enjoyable and worth striving for, because (1) the battle system was so amazing, so it was fun to have every movement and action down to perfection, and (2) each piece of literature expounded on the unique panzer world and backstory.

Originally Posted by Megavolt

Metroid Prime isn't as bad as you say, because later on there are often alternate entrances into various areas, so that sometimes you can go from A to D. I had no problem with going for 100% in that game. However, it's probably not as easy to get where you want as in Super Metroid, since the space jump in SM makes it a breeze to get anywhere.

But the alternate paths are few and far between, and the places I had to travel and retravel through could still be quite boring. Respawning enemies pissed me off a great deal also. I know the Zelda overworld is full of respawning enemies too, but it's a lot easier to ignore them and avoid confrontation.

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I've always liked Metroid more than Zelda though. Probably because the various areas in Zelda sometimes feel like intervals between dungeons (especially Wind Waker with all that sailing) whereas in Metroid the whole world is one big interconnected area for exploration.

This is where we differ. The Zelda overworld is just as important a part of the game for me as the dungeons. In fact it's often the dungeons I find to be the intervals - nevertheless extremely fun ones that I look forward to*. I agree with you on the Wind Waker point: that was one exception to my Zelda rule that I could have mentioned, because the overworld in that game was incredibly monotonous and tedious, and didn't provide the same sense of range, scope or wonder as other Zelda overworlds.

*As testament to this, I'm 25 hours into TP, and I've only done 2 dungeons. They're kind of taking a back seat at the moment, as I'm enjoying roaming about the overworld so much. I think you'd like TP by the way, it's very OOT reminiscent).

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...Majora's Mask. The 3-day mechanic made it a pain to have to redo certain things in order to gain access to a particular area again.

I know this is a common complaint, but I either never felt this was a problem, or I just allowed it to balance itself out in my head because of the plus points that also came with such a unique system. The main point of the 3-day mechanic role is - as well as offering a much commented-on uniquely dark and foreboding atmosphere for a Zelda game - to bring into play the games massive township related sidequest system, which I had a lot more fun playing around with than the dungeones of that game. It's probably why I have a lot of love for MM - because my view of the Zelda games isn't dungeon-centric like yours and a lot of other peoples.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Megavolt

I wouldn't pass it off as stemming from a dungeon-centric view though. One of the things that I like about OOT is how cinematic everything is. The epic feel and contextual variety makes a lot of the non-dungeon areas worthwhile. That's why I like it more than Alttp, even though some people would argue that that one has better dungeons. Everything you did in OOT felt like a unique event whereas in Alttp it was more like okay, you rescued the girl in the crystal, now move on to the next. Alttp had various fortune tellers and one town, but a lot of that stuff didn't stand out much, except for whacking chickens. At least that's how I felt about it. In OOT, you remember the cemetary race, the sneaking around in Gerudo Valley, the scope of Lake Hylia. That's another thing I didn't care for in MM. A lot of the stuff seemed to be recycled from OOT. Not because it belonged in the world of MM but simply because it had been a functional gameplay element of OOT. The forest maze concept was reused for no good reason. Then there's a cemetary chase of sorts that the Deku King's aide forces you to go through for a mask. I've no doubt that there are more, but I lost interest in the game after completing the first dungeon. The so-called darker story didn't appeal to me much either. Skull Kid just seemed to be another emo angsty tragic villain. I'll take Ganondorf's evil ambition over that anime-inspired whining anyday.

If not totally dungeon centric, I still think you're concentrating on the wrong parts of the game. The dark story of the game isn't the one about the Skull Kid, that's missing the point, he's just a plot device. The dark story is the one about the towns people playing out the last 3 days of their lives over and over again. Throughout several timelines you get to know more and more about the lives of those people, and with what you know you can make their lives slightly better, to the backdrop of the imminent end of the world. It's these lives you become embroiled in that give you the reason to make sure the end of the world doesn't happen. Skull kid is unimportant.

A story within a story that I remember was one of trying to reunite a woman with the lover she lost. Over the course of 2 days I managed well. They each found each other thanks to my aid, and exchanged letters. But there was still one final problem to be solved. One final reunion between the two was supposed to take place on the final night. They'd at least be together at the end of the world. It didn't happen. I failed. Time was up. I remember being in an inn room as the final seconds were ticking away. The twilight shone into the room, and the background music in these final moments had peaked to become tense and uncomfortable. Everything I'd done for the people still hadn't been enough, it was all to be undone. They'd gotten to know me as I aided them. The next time I'd speak to them they wouldn't recognise me. It was a poignant moment, and more cinematic than any of those scripted events from Ocarina of Time, which would always be there, the same on every playthrough. Yes, I buy into the cinematic in my games too, and Majoras Mask has it in spades, you just need to be looking in the right places.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.