[PS2] Xenosaga III: Also Sprach Zarathustra

Hum, this game seems to have fallen off of my radar. Have any, ideally non-spoiler, trailers been released where one can get a sample of the battle and exploration music for this episode?

Also, from what I understand Lia Sargent is back to play Shion (awesome), and Bridget Hoffman will be doing KOS-MOS once again (double awesome.) Unfortunately, Joshua Seth (Ep.2 chaos) will be back. Still up in the air about Sherry Lynn coming back to do Momo, however reports say she's been spotted around the Bandai recording studio working on something. Guess we'll find out soon enough, but I'd be very happy if she made a comeback.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Man, game reviews these days don't even help. I'd really like to know if the game-to-story sequences flow better. The thing that has always bothered me about Xenosaga I/II is you spend 15 minutes in a story sequence then 30 minutes in a gameplay sequence that offers no story advancement the entire time. Gameplay is pretty much get from point A to point B before you can advance the story.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Cobalt Katze

I'm personally interested in more details about this "GeMix!?" minigame that the review mentioned. Is it an elaboration on the card game? Or something completely new?

It's sort of like an alternate world puzzle game. If you ever have played Wild Arms 2, GeMix is actually very similar to the Millennium Puzzles that you have to complete with Lilka. Basically you have to push blocks and use tools to get from the start of the puzzle to the end.

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Well, it seems the final chapter of X.S offers something from both "worlds" whether it's from the story or game side

Well maybe I should have been more clear. I don't dislike the long story sequences, or the amount of gameplay in the last two games, I just dislike how they are basically separated. There is no gameplay during the story and no story during the gameplay, if that makes sense. They really need to integrate the two better like most other RPGs do. I do have some hopes for this game though, if anything the mechas having an "Anima Awakening" choice in the menu has me excited about the storyline prospect in this one. I really liked the focus on the Gears in Xenogears and have been really disappointed with their roles in Xenosaga thus far. It seems that will change with the final chapter though.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by SOLDIER

My theory is that they still followed the storyplans that Takahashi layed out before they canned him, but because they had no idea what other ideas he was going to produce, they had to stick primarily to what they had on hand, and thin out the small plotline for the next 2 games. This is the only explanation I can think of for EPIII's pitiful running time.

If you didn't check my journal entry, I've been given impressions from a guy who knows a guy, stating that EPIII's total running time is 30 hours, and almost more than half of that time is due to ridiculously long dungeons (the final dungeon is reportedly 10 hours long. That's a 1/3 of the goddamn game) and battles. The story comes together nicely with the few cutscenes they show, but I'm sure it will confirm my earlier fears in that the story will run on fast-forward, avoiding any additional character development or small touches to hastily tie up all remaining loose ends.

I'm really hoping the information I was given proves inaccurate, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Just thinking about how this promising series quickly stumbled is too painful.

I've been hearing quotes of 30-40 hours the main story from Namco US internal play testers and up to 60 hours of gameplay if you do all of the sidequests(there are a ton) and minigames. I really don't know how valid these claims are though.

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Who the heck is the English voice actor for MOMO in XSIII? I can't even dig up any information about it on the Internet.

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I have to say, it's a damn shame this is going to be the last Xenosaga we'll see. They finally got so much right. Lots of excellent, emotional music, and high quality voice acting once again on the audio side. As SouthJag mentioned, there are next to no load times for most battles, though if there is a direct transition to a battle from a cutscene rather than on the field there is a load time, however it's nothing close to how bad XSII was and this type of transition isn't common.

They also fixed my biggest pet peeve I have with the Xenosaga series. Exploration areas FINALLY have some dialog and plot advancement mixed in making everything flow much better. No more plot ->Start at point A, get to point B ->Plot -> repeat formula for the entire game. Expect to be rewarded with some critical plot information while exploring in XSIII.

Battles are also extremely fast paced and character growth is handled much better where each person has a good set of unique abilities setting them apart in more than just aesthetics.

The real highlight for me is the ES battles. What a vast improvement in every aspect from style down to battle mechanics. The best way to describe the style of these battles is to think of a turned based ZoE2 game. The clunky Xenosaga mechs are gone, replaced by Anima equipped ES units that are finally on par with the Gears/Omnigears found in Xenogears.

I've only played the first few hours, but this is really feeling like the game Xenogears fans were looking for from the start. The strict sci-fi atmosphere has been replaced by one that feels a bit more like Xenogears while the ES units seem to be a critical plot device like the Gears in Xenogears were. Highly recommended to those Xenogears fans that have nearly given up on the Xenosaga series just as I did. You'll enjoy this one for sure.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

On MOMOs voice actor:

After loading up XSII to check, I'm almost positive her XSII and XSIII voice actor is the same person. I think she actually just took some acting classes between recording the two games.

FELIPE NO

Not that I'm exactly happy about the censorship, but I hear the press is blowing the issue way out of proportion similar to the Xenosaga censorship. The scenes basically went from "blood fountains" to just "blood" in the censored version.

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I'm not going to look at the screens as I'd like to avoid spoilers so I'll take your word on it. I was going off of a friend who supposedly has played though both the JP version and was mostly though the English version. Obviously he's mistaken or lying.

Speaking of spoilers. Don't read the damned database as soon as you get new stuff! Jesus, that thing contains plot spoiler information before it happens in the game. When the Abel information is first unlocked is a fine example of this.

How ya doing, buddy?

I just finished the game and I wanted to throw my two sense in about the Xenogears-Xenosaga connections because I think the connections are obvious and more coherent than most seem to think. This could get long to bear with me:

Spoiler:

First off, as pointed out already I understand some specifics don't match, but it doesn't matter much when you consider the idea is still basically the same. Abel being U-DO in Xenosaga and Abel only being a contact of the Wave-Existence in Xenogears for example have different specifics, but the concept is still exactly the same. He has a relation to an upper dimensional being which gives him certain abilities which are virtually identical in both cases. With that said here are some things I've noticed.


First off, I agree that KOS-MOS and chaos have no direct connection to Xenogears. I don't even believe they are meant to be referenced in any way because both of them have returned to Earth during the Xenogears timeline. They simply are not part of the Xenogears story because of this. If I had to guess, they would show up in Episode VI which was to be when humankind returns to Earth and these two would be waiting there.

U-DO is the wave existence, not chaos. By his very nature chaos cannot be a higher dimensional wave existence as he is basically the anti-existence to such beings.

Abel and Nephilim ARE the Abel and 'Elly' from Xenogears. There are so many clues to this which far outweigh some of the specifics which don't match. First off, some of the obvious things are they share the same appearances. Secondly, the database specifically states that Abel is the anti-existence to Nephilim, the same exact situation Abel/Fei and Elly share in Xenogears where Fei is the Contact and Elly is his anti-existence(Antitype). Third, the scene at the end where Nephilim merges with Mary and Abel as a child looks upon here in awe is scene that is also in Xenogears.

As for Nephilim being Elly even though Elly was created by Deus, the information still fits. First Nephilim is simply a consciousness that exists in the UNM along with pretty much every other consciousness that isn't already linked to a physical body. So remember, the physical existence of Elly was first created by the Wave-Existence out of Abel's need for a mother. It's completely possible Nephilim's consciousness was simply given physical form.

Another supporting aspect that Nephilim and Elly are the same person is their respective roles. Mary is basically a guide to salvation. Elly grows into the exact same personally late in the Xenogears storyline while in her previous life as Sophia she again served as a spiritual figurehead which helped lead people to their salvation.

As for the Jin-Citan thing, again I think it is possible. The database specifics that Jins consciousness still exists in the UNM. Considering how both MOMO and KOS-MOS came to be, I think Deus did the exact same thing when creating the first humans in Xenogears. Physical bodies were created then consciousness from the UNM are infused into those bodies. This concept also makes me believe that Cain in Xenogears may very well be Wilhelm reborn while the Gazel ministry may be other major figureheads reborn from Xenosaga who would be aware of Lost Jerusalem.


Finally, I do also believe the Omega system is Deus. Consider a few things first. Everyone that actually knows of the true purpose of the Omega system is dead or not present. A group of humans come upon the thing and realize it is a system that has a tremendous amount of energy output. Obviously it would be easy enough to adapt the system to be some type of planet buster weapon thus the concept of Deus is born from the Omega system. Also, a few supporting ideas from Xenosaga include the fact that the Omega core in Abel's Ark has the exact same four floating orbs of energy that the Deus core has at the end of Xenogears. Not only that but the final form of Omega, Omega Metempsychosis looks very similar to the final form of Deus down having two small gears on each side of it.

Okay, deep breath:

Spoiler:

So with that background this is my take on what happens from here and how Xenosaga and Xenogears are linked. I understand some things might be sketchy because I may be trying to directly link things. But small rewrites in a Xenogears remake would fix a lot of things.

First, chaos returns to Earth along with 80%+ of human population in the Universe. KOS-MOS also finds her way there floating in space which is somewhat sported by the ending. So basically these two are out of the storyline from this point. The Elsa crew also started their long journey to Earth so all of them are also out of the picture at this point.

So what we are left with is a handful of human survivors scattered around the galaxy and a non-functioning UNM which was pretty much the basis for a lot of human technology and advancement at the time. Time passes and the other main characters left over from Xenosaga slowly fade into history.

So humans are basically milling around for a while and due to the lack of the UNM possibly even slowly regressing in technology. Little by little the major 'relics of mankind are gathered,' the Merkabah, the ESes, Omega Universitas, even the Zohar and then the Omega system. Omega and the Zohar are eventually redeveloped into a weapon which threatens to destroy what little is left of humanity.

So on the verge of total destruction the humans decide to ban together and put all their resources into building the Eldridge, the final hope of humankind. Every piece of human collected history is integrated into it and the Omega system along with the Zohar are decided to be the power source for the huge ship being is the most powerful thing known to exist at the time. After it is done, the small amount of remaining humans are loaded up onto the thing and among them is Abel who is perhaps some type of reincarnation or even the original thrust out of phase by some event that also removes Omega and the Zohar from the same phase space.

Again some more milling around is done on the ship until eventually Abel finds his way into the core room making direct contact with both the Zohar and the Omega system. Due to his past relationship with both, crazy things start to happen such as U-DO (Wave-Existence) realizing Abel's will and bring Nephilim(Mary) into physical being. All the while the Omega system is also being effected by Abel's present and eventually becomes self aware.

And from there we are into the opening FMV in Xenogears and we all know what happens after that.

Just some extras thoughts to add not already mentioned: At the end of Xenogears Deus actually resurrects Abel's Ark, hence why the angel type Gnosis show up in both Xenogears and Xenosaga as well as to why the cores in the two games look similar.

I would say the only thing that really bothers me is the Anima relics. I can't really think of possible reason as to why they would show up again in Xenogears if they had already been reintegrated into chaos at the end of Xenosaga.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Colonel Skills

Yes, Cetra, all those similarities are there because the stories are similar, have similar themes, and there are numerous cameo appearances and other fanservice and nods to Gears fans. But the writers and devs have said time and time again that the stories are NOT linked. They can't continue the story. Saga is not meant to be a prequel to Gears. I really don't know how many times people have to say this. It's fun to draw conclusions, sure. But it's just not the case. You're filling in blanks in various places and making wild assumptions here to boot.

Besides, there are too many inconsistenancies like I've previously mentioned, and to link them you need to make many iffy connections that were never there in the games or design materials, and every single theory I've seen has the people making it making wild assumptions and just guessing about things.

I will repeat for good measure. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME TIMELINE. IT COULD NOT EVEN WORK. The writers even say so. Yeesh.

I'm not really making any wild assumptions. Most are supported by in game events from both games. I personally think the wild assumption is completely dismissing the obvious connections because some things don't work. Look at the facts I presented. There is more supporting information FOR the link between the two games than missing pieces.

Let's take a nice example here:

Spoiler:

U-DO is a higher dimensional existence in a wave universe. It uses observation terminals to observe the dimensional Universe. It specifically states to Shion that it exists as it is observed.

The Wave Existence is a higher dimensional existence in a wave universe. It uses observation terminals to observe the dimensional Universe. It specifically states to Abel that it exists as it is observed.

Conclusion: They aren't the same because U-DO isn't trapped in the Zohar at the time.

Wait, what? Which one here is a wild assumption based on presented facts again?

The writers only said Xenosaga isn't a direct prequel to the actual Xenogears game. That is, they were free to make changes as they wanted to in attempts to make a better story. But that doesn't change the fact that the basics of Xenogears were not draw upon and linked upon in Xenosaga. They were planning on REWRITING Xenogears from the beginning. A rewrite still reuses basic plot points. They never said the stories were not linked, not once.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Colonel Skills

If that's not a flat out denial that the stories are not directly linked, I don't know what is.

No actually, you know what that tells me? Exactly what I said. They wanted to cover their asses and be free to make changes to the story if they found it necessary. This is no way denies the links aren't intentional.

Or let us break that quote down just a bit more to make you happy:

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Though there are familiar faces that serve as important characters in Xenosaga, others are more like self-parodies

Spoiler:

So "familiar faces that serve as important characters in Xenosaga" can translate to Nephilim, Abel, Jin, and "others are more like self-parodies" can translate into Hammer, that general with the X face paint and Big Joe.

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And yes, I'd say some of your theories about

Spoiler:

Abel for example, are rather "wild" in the smallest sense of the word. Abel in Gears is a human boy. The only one who survives the Eldridge Crash and is killed later on by Cain. He's given eternal life through reincarnation by the Zohar. Abel being a regular human tasked with freeing the WE and Abel being a MANIFESTATION of the WE is too different to just connect like that, yes.

Spoiler:

Nope, in Xenogears it states the reason Abel survived the crash was because of the power he inherited from the WE. He was already beyond human before the crash.

And I find it funny that you dismiss all of the other connections because you can't replace "Abel was enhanced by the WE" with "Abel was given life by the WE." Really, exactly how much impact would this small change make? If U-DO somehow becomes trapped in the Zohar, would it not make sense to give his lower dimensional observation terminal the task of freeing it?

Quote:

Spoiler:

And most of your entire second spoiler block is speculation. There isn't enough data from either game to draw those conclusions. The same goes for the UMN link to Deus and how Citan ended up looking like he did. Citan wouldn't have parents if he was created by Kadamony directly and based off of Jin's conciousness, (assuming if your theory was true.) It just doesn't hold up based on what's confirmed in either story.

Spoiler:

That's assuming he was born normally and his parents were foster parents. Or that his bloodline isn't capable of passing down certain traits like many other important figures in Xenogears. Of course either way would be 'wild speculation', but not any more than assuming he was born normally since it was never stated.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Colonel Skills: I believe we both made our points and I'd rather not argue/discuss it anymore. I just want you to know I do understand and respect your viewpoint.

Winter Storm:

Erde Kaiser Sigma

Spoiler:

I actually beat Erde Kaiser Sigma at level 41 without any of the other Erde Kaisers. The key to victory for me was 1/2 fire damage bracelets on all and keeping Safety up on as many people in the party as possible at all times. Shion was my healer, MOMO was the attacker keeping Blood Dancer up as much as possible. I used KOS-MOS in the final spot as a backup healer and Safety caster. When Sigma cycled to being vulnerable to fire I tore him apart with Blood Dancer boosted NEMESIS and D-TENERITAS attacks.

Omega Id

Spoiler:

As for Omega-Id, its actually really easy as well. Buy lots of Half Repairs and Medium Nano repairs. Basically have at least someone heal each round. If one person needs HP just use the single items, if more than one use the half repairs. Keep everyone at high HP at all times. Naturally the best person to heal would be someone who's attacks would be nulled on their turn.

Keep at least one persons Anima gage below 1 at all times after he hits half health. If he uses that power up attack (sorry I forgot the name) just have everyone guard/charge that round and it will be impossible for him to kill anyone even with two attack rounds. I had one ES with one of those 1/2 guard damage things on and he usually did a pitiful 6000 dmg max while guarding.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by blackbird862000

wilhelm is great an all but

Spoiler:

i hate the way he was "killed off".. it was great how he just looked at kevin when his arm was cut off

but other then that i love the music also, my favorite being the one when you enter the ruins in the cave of the floating landmass..of course i like others too..

Spoiler:

So true. I couldn't believe that there wasn't a final ES fight between Joshua and the party. He was pretty much like "oh look I guess I lost, good bye" .......

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