Israel invades Gaza

Well even though I believe the overall picture is well beyond the blame game, you can't exactly convince me that Hamas is a victim here. You state that Hamas wasn't going to take oppression but then you expect Israel just to sit back and continue to allow its citizens to subject to rocket fire on a daily basis.

Regardless of the reasons, Hamas was in the wrong by firing rockets. Living under oppression, or poverty or whatever else you want to come up with isn't a valid excuse for the tactic. They ignored the cease fire and now they and the people that allowed Hamas to stay in power are going to stuffer because of it. You don't pick a fight with the school bully then run and cry after he turns around and punches you in the face.

I really hold little love for Israel but at this point Hamas will receive no sympathy either.

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I'm going to piss off a large amount of people, but like that's stopped me before.

The loss of Israel is only the fault of the Palestinians because they run one of the worst fucking cultures in the world. Being Arab fucking sucks, and poor state of the Arab nations is nothing but their own fault even though they continue to blame Western culture for their misfortunes. The only mildly successful Arab nations are ones that have close Western ties, AKA OIL.

Lets assume for the moment that the Arab nations get their wish and Israel is pushed into the sea. Now what? Will gaining the land of Israel somehow create this wonderful Arab utopia? Fuck no, it will become just another Arab nation shithole that nobody wants to deal with. Fuck you Palestinians, you've done nothing to deserve your own country.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Denicalis

As opposed to the Israelis that have done... what exactly?

How about a self sustaining government and economy that can actually feed its people? Active participants of the global market? Israel has the 21st most prosperous economy in the world and an active business and industry.

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Originally Posted by Encephalon

I'm a little curious as to what your system of measuring the worth of "culture" is. I absolutely want to know.

Culture as in the resulting social bodies developed out of the culture. As Western nations have been developed out of Western culture, its values, its beliefs, its practices.

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Originally Posted by Denicalis

Israel has massive amounts of economic and military support from certain foreign powers, now don't they.

Oh my, your points. They are so, well, pointless.

Israel has prospered, but they were given every possible opportunity to prosper. There's a reason people shake their heads about this when they know the history of the country.

As have many modern Western nations have. The difference is Israel has also taken the initiative to properly distribute and invest in the aid they receive. They also developed a stable government and have become less and less reliant on foreign aid by developing their own industries. This has been the pattern for pretty much every successful nation in the past.

And you're damn right they were given every possible opportunity, because they were willing to properly seize the opportunity which is more than can be said for basically every Arab nation on the planet. Iraq was just given a similar opportunity and they have pissed it all away.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Encephalon

Yes. Imagine that. You actually want to measure "culture" by Western "culture". The same cats that sleep with their sisters and their donkeys. I mean, sure, we can compose a sonnet and write a song but, oh my fucking god, THE DONKEY SHOW.

No actually, you measure culture by propriety. Lets look at the most prosperous nations in history. Oh look at that its a list dominated by Western Culture civilizations. Oh are where are the Arab nations? Sitting along the bottom with the African civilizations. But we can just continue to refuse to ignore any possible correlation here. I mean doing so has just worked out so well for the world so far.

Oh but the Arab nations want to continue to blame western culture for holding them back. I mean its just could not possibility be that Arab culture is holding itself back. No need for reform here! If they can wipe Western culture off the planet Arab culture will prosper again!

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Denicalis

Yeah. It's not like we owe a huge debt to the Muslim nations for things like astronomy, math, or the written word. It's not like some of the richest countries in the world are arab or anything.

Man, I don't even like the middle east, and you're winning me over to their side just by being so blatantly fucking wrong about all your facts.

Yeah and we have a lot thanks to the Romans too, but oh look at how prosperous Roman culture is today. It's absolutely stupid to try and justify the current state of Arab nations by pointing thousand year old achievements.

And the most of the richest Arab nations in the world are also some of the worst places to live in the world. Just because your government makes billions of dollars on oil doesn't make them an example of prosperity. The riches Arab nations of the world have some of the worst living conditions in the world, they treat their citizens like shit and offer nothing to the rest of world. The UAE is an exception, but funny how they have the most 'Western-like' culture out of the Arab states. They are also gradually moving to a democratic state as they become more involved in world politics and and the world market. The UAE is the perfect example of reform made by an Arab state to integrate into the rest of the world. That nation has become more prosperous as they forgo more and more of the traditional Arab values.

FELIPE NO