tl;dr

Since ChocoJournal isn't back yet, I'll use this thread to remark about my current situation concerning my social life. (It's not called "ANGST!" for nothing.) I'll apologize ahead of time and at the end for the length, but when I want to type I fucking do it and at great length.

Since GFF was wiped and I was still relatively new when it happened, some people may not know the story yet so I'll summarize.

• I'm 22, and I've been single my entire life. Never had sex, never been kissed (on the lips...I was once on the cheek but that was in a game of Truth or Dare, so I don't count it), and I've never been on a date. I don't drink, I'm atheist, and I have only one actual friend right now.
• How many friends I've ever had depends greatly on what the parameters of friendship would be, but best friends I've only ever had 3 to speak of, and the total number of possible friends is probably less than or around 10.
• None of my friends have been female.
• Yes, this includes Erin.

As the calendar year turned, I felt a particular wave of general dismay, despair, loneliness and boredom concerning my life, particularly my social life. I had just left Circuit City (which I had worked at since August 2002) to work at Home Depot, and Circuit City was not a happy place to work on many levels. Biologically speaking I've not been able to handle getting up in the morning since during school, whether I'd be tired or my body would not be happy gastrointestinally speaking. So, I worked nights exclusively, with a couple rare morning shifts here and there...and when I say rare, I mean one morning shift every...oh...6 months. As you would expect, this is tantamount to social suicide. I would rarely get to hang out with the people I'd want to hang out with and I accepted this as a casualty to my need to feel healthy biologically as opposed to socially. So, much like for the other 13-16 years prior to working, my social aptitude languished. That isn't the main reason why I left Circuit City, nor is it in the top 5, but I've made it not an issue at Home Depot. Nevertheless...

Being friends with someone, to me, is the sense that both people involved enjoy each other's company and would like to spend time with each other on a regular basis. How you define "regular" entirely depends on how much time the both of you COULD spend with each other. Erin is not much unlike the typical college student; gotta work to pay the bills, gotta get educated, gotta try to fit in a social life. What I think about how much time she may have to spend socially is irrelevant; the fact is we've only hung out once (back in late January) and we've not since while she's gone out drinking on a somewhat irregular basis (maybe once or twice a week). She works 40 hours, has class 2 days a week (one of which bisects one 9-hour workday; the other consumes a day-off), has an internship one day a week (which consumes the other day-off), and has presumably been making trips to the gym. Still, some people would suggest that she still would have time to hang out with friends anyway (and she does get to when she goes out drinking, which, despite some hint-dropping, she's not invited me to). Should I feel a sense of dejection, that her telling me that she'd like to hang out and she wants to be friends is simply an outright embellishment? As a person who overthinks and overanalyzes (sidenote: she recently told me she does to), this is one instance where, over time, I've groomed myself to not getting into. Conclusions:

• If she does want to spend more time with me it's only when she can invest a great deal of it at once (i.e. a planned event, like going to Boston as we've previously discussed and she's shown great interest in).
• Aside from the "stolen" time I've had with her (spending chunks of lunch breaks...or entire lunch breaks...or time when I'm out of work but stay to chat), she doesn't seem keen on spending only brief time with me, which is part of why she doesn't invite me to go out drinking.
• The other reason is she's a self-proclaimed "mean drunk", which I haven't had the chance to suggest I could deal with or accept as part of getting to know who she is or get to meet her friends.

Erin has some mentalities I would assume are based upon life experience, including her rape/abortion 3 years ago. I find it respectable that while I have a hard time even considering the whole story (which I haven't heard) she was capable of expressing it in various ways: writing, drawing, public speaking. She hasn't done much of any of this (that I know of), but it seems to have led to her dominant mentality of "I can handle my issues myself, no matter how enveloping or difficult they may be". So, when I go down the list of all the stressors in her life (work, school, parents, personal health, the health and general concern of both her brother in the armed forces and her grandfather, economic issues, general disdain for living situation, and possibly more that she's not letting me in on), I see that list and think, "What would I be like in that situation?". Of course, I could never know...the reasons why include that I'm slightly aloof but also because I've never experienced ALL of those issues at the same time. I'd presume I'd be a wreck, and that's what Erin has been for the past couple of months. I've been telling her that I hope she feels better, and more recently I've been asking her if or telling her I wish there was something I could do to help, but the general response is that she is going to make it through, for better or for worse. Respectable? Admirable? Foolish? Sometimes when you're younger you think you can do it all on your own. Whether she can or can't remains to be seen. She consistently suggests she wishes it would all go away, or that she could go away...and she is pretty confident in moving to Arizona towards fall 2007.

Where does all this leave me? Not far from where I was after leaving Circuit City. I've had the same one friend since then and, though I've made efforts to spend time with Erin and, more recently, another female coworker (since there's maybe one guy I like enough to think about hanging out with), it's all come out as wheels spinning. "Don't mix business with pleasure" to me sounds more like "don't bother making female friends of your coworkers", which is self-defeating on enough levels to consider it complete bullshit. My lack of a social life and, therefore, increased feeling of loyalty to the few who would spend time with me reinforce the notion that I would not betray or backstab my friends. Of course, this theory hasn't been tested, ever, so I'm probably saying this to make me feel better. However, it seems when talking to Erin that she's got enough of that shit going on with her friends ("mostly guys", which is why she says "guys suck"...but she wants to get married and have children someday), so I'd be better off maintaining my confidence in my ability to not lose the confidence of my friends, something Erin has had issues with in recent history. Now it's just a matter of winning said confidence.

Otherwise, my social life isn't any different. I work more days now (2 or 3 a week), and I still spend my days off (like tomorrow, I'm predicting) either doing nothing or hanging out with my friend. Those of you who have seen my prior threads on this situation have already suggested numerous ways of getting out and being social, but I can't do it myself and all at once. I feel like I do need someone to hold my hand, which is why when I stepped into Erin's haunt (a local bar), I briefly surveyed the situation, and ducked back out. I've never had a drink in my life and I quickly run through all the negatives about doing it when I'm by myself and I can't find a positive in there at all (the fact that the crowd was almost all in their 30s and up). The only solution is school. I've been meaning to go to school for almost a year now (took the SATs last June, filed for financial aid in the past few days), but the stopgap will be money. If that goes away, the questions that arise are, "How much do I try to be a social person? Can I balance my life like Erin is trying to; being social, working, going to school, and maintaining my health, my well-being and my economy all at once? Can I transcend my shitty high school work ethic?" I am hoping for a turn for the better in my social life (i.e. relationship) before going to school so I don't have to worry as much about being social, but that's elaborated upon in the next paragraph.

(Told you it was going to be a long thread.)

How should one feel when they've gone their entire life and have done all the asking but have seldom been asked? Would I have no social life if I never asked anyone to hang out? How would I know either way? I don't know how my current friend and I ended up hanging out, and neither does he. All we know is that we're each other's best friend, but he's got a girlfriend he loves and intends on moving away with. If he did, I'd be left to myself, with my same boring life. Making life exciting in this area is tough. It's tougher when I have no strong interest in drinking (especially not by myself), or going to clubs. Making people think you are an interesting person isn't as easy as you'd think. But that's how I have to get Erin or Nicole to hang out with me more. By spending time doing fun things with people, like Chris and I did when we were starting out, you probably/hopefully end up where you don't need to do something interesting to want to spend time hanging out. Erin likes me for my ability to listen to her and that I want to listen to her as she's ranting about her issues, and the fact that I am concerned for her well-being can't be going unnoticed or unappreciated. We've only hung out once so I don't consider us friends, but it wouldn't take much in my mind to make The Leap. It's the need to differentiate myself to her and her other guy friends that is my sole concern if and when the chance comes along. If and when we go to Boston may be the chance.

Sorry again about the length.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

The fact that I've made efforts to hang out with someone else other than Erin should indicate where I feel I am with her and where I think my confidence level is. I know I'm still pretty socially inept but I've at least got some resolve to fix it.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

You two understand the concept of quitting smoking "cold turkey"? Difficult for most, simple for few. Jumping in with both feet would be akin to quitting smoking "cold turkey", something I can't fathom doing. As it is, I'm trying to quit being boring and lonely as most people quite smoking: slowly but surely, and with some sense of resolve. It may take some time but at least I'm trying.

My stance on drinking was more towards "unnatural fear" until last month when I concluded it was completely irrational to avoid bars. Not that I haven't been in drinking establishments in the meantime (the pool hall Chris and I frequent is the best example), but Chris is underage (despite that, he drinks at home) so we don't go to drink. I'd prefer not to have to drink to spend time with people but if that's how it has to be, then so be it. I don't want to need to have a drink in order to have fun (which is what your post suggests but I know you're not thinking it), but I also don't feel comfortable just going by myself and drinking. Best case scenario is I get comfortable going out drinking with someone (not particularly Erin but then again the list isn't very long ), meet some people there, and take it from there.

Hell, I wouldn't even know what to order for a drink.

It's not that I don't think I could control myself (right now I'm doing well enough), but that I would need to have a drink in order for me to "loosen up", and that only by "loosening up" will people find me more appealing. It may seem like I'm not too appealing based on what I've posted but I'm not this crazy in real life.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I'm not in school yet, but the idea of joining a/many club(s) is one I've been entertaining.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

No seriously. Once or twice, just for the experience never hurt anyone. But I know Dope willa damantly refuse, so.

Did you mean to suggest that I do try weed? Because that was a really butchered sentence.

I was speaking idiomatically.

As if I'm not paranoid enough, then.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I drink Sprite 80% of the time.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

Seriously, though. 80% Sprite. You're killing yourself slowly with that shit. =/

Does it matter to say Sprite has no caffeine in it?

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Drex

My suggestions probably wouldn't include the physical changes of drinking and smoking and whatnot, htough changing diet can have a great impact on your physiology and ought to be considered.

I'm below 180 pounds for the first time in months (possibly years), and I haven't needed dieting. I'm thinking the fact that I've been taking Centrum has something to do with it.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I didn't notice that it was closed. :?

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by RacinReaver

Alternatively, you can also say that you had some bad experiences when you were younger and you don't feel comfortable drinking (or drinking anymore). People hate to be the asshole trying to force someone to drink when they have some sort of supposed emotional issue on the table.

Too late to play that card, methinks...

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Erin is a study in confusion. She agrees with the ideology that you don't need to drink to have a good time, but goes out drinking almost all the time now (so it seems). She's even ended up driving home drunk a couple times in the past couple of months or drinking and driving. Moreover, when she goes out drinking, it's mostly with guys who treat her like crap and make her feel worse about herself. And here I am just trying to spend more time with her; if it involved drinking or being with people who drink, what's the harm, right? Well now I think this is the sort of behaviour she seeks in men, or just thrives on. She's going to build up enough frustration that she's going to explode, and if I'm a casualty of it then so be it.

I left her a voicemail on this issue and basically to seek a resolution in the whole matter of us. I basically told her if she doesn't like me then that's fine, but that she shouldn't expect me to not be worried about her, especially at a time when she seems heading down the downward spiral. I've been nothing but nice, respectful (depending on your point of view...), and empathetic towards her, but if all she wants or expects is guys who treat her like shit and she wants to loop me in with them then I want nothing to do with her.

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Originally Posted by Niekon

old news

I've read/heard all this before. Maybe you should let me do my thing?

I probably am crazy for her, but until I come up with something to keep me occupied with my free time I'm not going to just drop her all at once. She's not giving me much reason to keep my obsession, however.

I was speaking idiomatically.

I made this thread because ChocoJournal isn't around yet. You didn't have to read it, or post in it, nor did anyone else. I also made this thread as a reiteration of what's going on with me, so if you already knew then you shouldn't have bothered then, either.

I can't get over it because I'm confused about what is going on. She seems to like me enough to hang out with me once, and seems to be interested in me enough to want to hang out again, but then she turns around, tells me she doesn't want to hang out (on any given day, not necessarily in general), then goes out drinking and tells me about it days later. If she doesn't like me, why not just tell me? If she does like me, why not understand that I'm trying to help her at a time when it seems no one else will? Should I just leave her to destroy herself? Would any of you do the same?

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Seems to me that if she doesn't know what she wants then how can I be sure of how to act with her? There's probably an obvious answer to that.

FELIPE NO

No, no and no. The one time she did return my call was one week after we hung out, after she concluded that I felt the time we did hang out was a date (in the romantic sense) and to clarify that she has no interest in that at this point in her life.

It's not like she's a mean-spirited person -- she was much different when we did hang out, even with the similar circumstances -- but I don't know where her head is at right now.

Here's how smitten I am with her and depressed about the whole thing: my friend and I were sitting in an intersection, returning from 4 hours of hanging out (with about an hour-and-a-half of pool that seemed extremely awkward and tense) and she drove by. Moments later my heart crashed into my stomach. I have lost it. I don't know why this keeps happening to me (meet a girl who seems to like me, put her on a pedastal only to have her jump down moments later) but I'd really like it to stop.

(To clarify: she's already said she's not interested in a relationship -- with anyone -- and that she wants to be friends. What seems to be the problem is my definition of friendship and her definition of friendship are a bit different, since her "friends" are the ones that have been dragging her down, not me.)

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Yes. I don't particularly feel the need to get laid, especially not just for the fuck of it. I don't think I need to get it out of the way, if that's what you're implying.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Can't love my own life if I'm not happy with it. But saying that is going to bring things that have already been said.

I don't think I'd want to have meaningless, casual sex, ever.

How ya doing, buddy?

Good things about me and my life:

• I'm economically stable. (I live at home, but I could probably live by myself.)
• I'm happy that I have been able to not drink for as long as I have. The longer I go the prouder I am that I haven't drank, though that may be related to how social I'm not.
• I'm happy to be atheist and politically independant.
• I'm happy I'm not an idiot and I want to go to school.
• I'm happy people like me, even if it's just because I'm nice to everyone.
• I'm happy I'm not an asshole.

I think that's it...

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Negatives:

• As mentioned, I can't seem to have more than one very good friend at a time, though I have had none.
• Socializing with women...with anyone, but specifically women...isn't a difficulty. Stepping past the "friendly acquaintance" stage and into something else is...something else.
• I'm obviously not too outgoing. I'm not shy, I'm not introverted...but I can't find a level to connect with most my peers on.
• I'm generally not like most guys my age in many ways. This is one thing that's both good and bad.

I'm not sure if that's it or I'm just being generous or if I can't be bothered to elaborate.

Double Post:
BTW, I'm both surprised and not that no one has asked what "tl;dr" means.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

OK maybe I am somewhat introverted but I'm not shy.

Either way, I would think I do have a problem, as most people are capable of making friends.

I was speaking idiomatically.

I can see how the problem could be myself when it comes to women but not to guys.

Is it too obvious that what I really want is a relationship?

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Boy we've got a lot of jilted people on this board, don't we?

I'd like to be in love for once, not just infatuated with someone. Making close friends is all well and good but I'd like to go through the motions of a relationship just to have it happen.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by valiant

Love is such a fickle word, clearly misused and abused by our era. Love requires a mutual acceptance of both sides. Clearly love can never be gained (but infatuation easily) if the other side has no interest. If the other side has no interest in you, no matter how hard you try...you will never be able to procure this acceptance. Rather you would make the current relationship (friendship or whatever) worse.

Sounds about right. I'm 2-for-2 on proving that. :dotdotdot:

Originally Posted by Dark Nation

As for your situation. MOVE ON, OR KISS HER.

That was an idea (kissing her; moving on is still in the planning stages ), but that's one time I know I wouldn't be happy with the result.

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How is it that I'm thinking too much about what hobby to take up or how to meet people? That's probably not what you mean, but not thinking about it at all would just mean accepting that this is what my life is going to be like at this time, which I'm obviously not willing to do.

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

These are things you should answer on your own.

Haven't we all concluded that it's obvious I can't? For whatever reason -- I don't have the mental capacity, I can't think outside the box (are those the same? ), I don't have prior experiences to draw upon -- I can't come with an answer for my problems aside from going to school, which I seriously didn't want to go to for another reason other than to learn and not fuck up. College is a lot of money -- money I don't own and will be owing, whether I like it or not -- and if I'm not going with the focus being to become smarter (or with even a 50-50 focus) then all the self-applied pressure to do well AND meet people will (hopefully not but could) make me regret that effort. And I'd like not to leave school if all I have to show for it is just some new friends and a couple months of education.

Double Post:

Originally Posted by Niekon

And while you'd like to be in love and experience the highs and lows of being in love... don't force it. You want it but the harder you try to attain it the less likely you are going to find it. You've heard the saying right? Once you stop looking it will fall right in your lap, but while you are seeking love it will never be found.

I wasn't looking for 21 years. Either I missed the chance or one never presented itself...both are equally likely.

How ya doing, buddy?