The Middle East spirals out of control!

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I have a question for comparison to this situation:

If, hypothetically, a state milita were to attack another soveriegn nation, should that be considered an act of war?
It seems to me that, for all intents and purposes, the militant branches of Hezbolla are similar to an independent militia.

All the people I have asked this question to so far have unanimously answered "no." :/

So if the California National Guard were to start attacking Mexico the US government would not be at fault? Our state Militia can just come in and invade and the rest of the US would not be held accountable?

That is what you are saying.

One thing that everyone needs to keep in perspective that the Lebanese government is not saying - SORRY ABOUT HEZBOLLAH. WE WANT TO STOP THEM BUT WE CAN'T. CAN WE PLEASE GET ASSISTENCE IN CRACKING DOWN ON THEM?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

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That's perfectly correct, but let's not forget the fact that the Hezbollah is a home-made threat created by Israel. If it wasn't for the occupation of Lebanon in 1982, Hezbollah would probably never have gained the support and influence it has today. If anything, the deliberate invasion of Lebanon serves as the ultimate reason for Hezbollah's existence and will even help it in gaining momentum.

If you read the Prospect of Peace in the Middle East Thread:

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http://www.gamingforce.com/forums/po...ddle-east.html

You would understand that Israel's original invasin of Lebanon was based on terrorist shelling Israel. They did not invade for the hell of it back then and did not attack for the hell of it today.

Double Post:

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God forbid if Syria and Iran get involved in this conflict, both Israel and the United States are going to be in serious trouble.

Not really. Israel is capable of handling the majority of the Middle East as they had demonstrated n their war of indepedence (more like war for right to exist) and the 6-Day War, and the Yom Kippur War. If their existence came into question again, they have atomics that they can use.

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If you honestly want to go back in time to play the blame game we can start this whole mess with Britain and the UN for founding Israel.

If you want to go even furthur back in time, blame Abraham for not listening to God.

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They want nothing but Israel away from the Holy Mosque and no abuse.

You are very misinformed if you think otherwise. I speak to you from the middle east and i have been to Palestine.

Brady and I do not live in the Middle East but there is substantial evidence that points to the fact that Israel would still be under assault if they withdrew from Palestine entirely. The PLO charter who ironically is much much more moderate than Hamas states that their goal is to keep fighting until the "Zionist" nation no longer exist.

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Shit, it's in Israel's best interests to take care of Palestine. Extremist organisations die when their recruitment pool realises it's not worth saddling up for a remote grudge of history when they've a home that they know will stand for more than six months, central heating, clean water, a secondary school and a decent soccer ground.

Israel takes better care of Palestinian refuges than Palestine would if the role situations were reversed. No matter what Israel does, as long as school textbooks and the Imams and the Mosques continue to preach death to Israel - nothing can be done. It's really kill or be killed and the military action is precipitated from the Palestinian/Hezbollah end.

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and seeing as the very presence of Israel is disputable (I know the propaganda demands it be seen as a given, remember they were declared by war and deliberate "take-over", that isn't a good foundation for a country, and that goes for any other country that's done the same) the scales kinda tip towards Hamas being a lot more on the "reaction" based side.

At some point though, you must see things the way they are and move on with your lives. Over two generations has passed since the founding of Israel. Why are 16 year old's blowing themselves up for events that happened in that happened 60 years ago? Israel exists now and will continue to exist.
The arab nations need to get off Israel's back. Were not giving America back to the indians, or california back to mexico, or paying reperations to the Blacks.

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Way to kill eight Canadians, Israel.

Of course if we were America we would have nuked them for that. Sigh, can the world just step in already.

People in a warzone die regardless of nationality. And yes the word has tried to intervene. The world's terms are "Return Israel's soldiers and stop shelling them". Very cut and dry.

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I don’t think it’s ludicrous at all. Maybe they don’t bomb cafes or abduct other countries’ soldiers. But they do intentionally bomb civilian districts and abduct/kill innocent civilians instead. Which is worse?

It's not even CLOSE the ratio of restraint exercised by Israel versus it's relative military might. They ARE dropping leaflets warning of impending attack zones. Think Hamas has that courtesy? Hezbollah? You think if Hezbollah had a nuke, they wouldn't of used it on Israel already and be picky of military targets?
Thank you.

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It’s constantly stirring up shit with the Arab world and the Israeli government knows that the Arabs will attack them. They then use that as an excuse to “respond in a reactionary manner.” In this case, it’s the “removal of Hezbollah”, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Israel sticks around. Just by looking at Israel’s last two invasions of Lebanon, their intentions are clear.

What did Israel do to precipitate the attack by Hezbollah? The Arab countries didnt HAVE to attack Israel. But Israel HAS to respond. See the difference?

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No. Sure, Arabs and Jews have equal rights, but that doesn’t mean anything, really. Whether or not they HAVE rights is not the question. Everyone has equal rights under international law. The real question is whether or not these rights are being upheld. And the reality is that Israel continues to abuse these rights. We can get technical if you want, but we’re talking about quite a few international laws and regulations that Israel has purposely been broken in the name of “retaliation.”

I can sum that entire debate in one question.
Would you rather be an arab living in Israel or be a jew living in Palestine?
Thank you.

How ya doing, buddy?

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So if we can all agree on the fact that a stable Lebanon is in the best interest to all parties involved, why is it that the whole country's infrastructure has to be destroyed now?

The whole infrastructure is NOT being destroyed. Remember that Israel posses enough conventional weapons (not counting Nuclear) to level the entire country. We are talking about areas that Hezbollah is operating out of.
You CAN NOT make an omelette without breaking a few eggs. Why do people refuse to accept the fact that Israel is being courteous in comparasion to what Hamas, Hezbollah would be doing if they had access to equilivent arms?

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I mean, wouldn't a somewhat closer diplomatic relationship and support to Beirut be a lot more productive than the bombing of roads, bridges, buildings and airports that will take years and decades to be rebuilt? After just merely recovering from the previous occupation and the ensuing civil war, the Lebanese people have their country in ruins yet again. What makes a sane person think that the atrocities will not be engraved in the collective mind of these people forever?

What would a closer diplomatic relationship to Beirut accomplish in regards to dismantling Hezbollah. Beirut did nothing before the attacks, during the attacks and even now. Israel is determined to knock Hezbollah out of southern lebanon. Where is the cooperation?

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Let's just assume for a second here that Israel can actually wipe out the Hezbollah entirely: What makes you think that those witnessing all the carnage and destruction now aren't going to take up arms against Israel? There's always a new generation of terrorists just waiting around the corner, willing to risk their lives fighting against those who came into their country destroying their homes and killing their families. Do you honestly think they care about the reason for Israel's actions?

Maybe there will be a new generation of terrorists, maybe not. Either case, a soverign nation must do what a soverign nation must do.

You bloody my nose, I will bloody your nose back (less I am willing to be your bitch). Do I really give a damn that me bloodying your nose back might result in you being "more upset" at me and result in you trying to kick me in the shins?

I'm just going to kick back and if you continue to attack, I'll just break your damn neck.

The moral of the story is to don't pick fights.

Second moral is there is always room for forgiveness. Apologize for punching me in the nose, return my 2 soldiers and stop shelling my citizens.

The ball is in Hezbollah's court when it comes to stopping this invasion.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

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All I can say is wow...

http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2006/0...comment-188040

You do realize that people are taking those photos completely out of context right? It's addressed to the leader of Hezbollah.

If you want to play propaganda games here's some info from Saudi Arabia - SUPPOSEDLY a MODERATE ARAB government.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13804825/

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There has been progress. However, a new study found examples of intolerance, even hate, in multiple Saudi textbooks now used in grades 1-12.

Nina Shea's group — the Center for Religious Freedom — examined textbooks used during the past school year, and found the following teachings, which were verified by NBC News:

* Jews and Christians are "enemies" of Muslims.
* Every religion other than Islam is "false."
* "The hour [of Judgment] will not come until the Muslims fight the Jews and kill them."

"It's taught that Christians and Jews are the enemy of the Muslim," says Shea. "And that the Muslim must wage jihad in order to spread the faith in battle against the infidel."

What's more, an eighth grade text equates Jews with "apes" and Christian infidels with "swine." A tenth grade text teaches that the life of a Muslim is worth twice that of a non-Muslim.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

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None of this hurts Hezbollah

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Israel's current actions, however much damage they do to Hezbollah, ultimately do more to Lebanon. On the other hand, the other option presented would be just as bad for Lebanon; ordering the Lebanese Army to disarm Hezbollah, by force if necessary, would serve to spark a new civil war, with the resulting instability it would bring.

At some point, the homeowner must take responsibility for bad tenents. I think that no one disagree's with the fact that Lebanese citizens are being harmed and Lebanon as a whole is paying for the war against Hezbollah.

If Israel remains comitted to it's campaign until the finish, Lebanon will have no choice but to disarm Hezbollah's military wing and stop electing its politcians for the sake of the rest of the country. If Israel pulls out now, NOTHING will have been accomplished other than furthur emboldening Hezbollah.

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Also..

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Keep in mind that out of the 500+ total casualties, only 50-100 were alleged Hezbollah fighters.

In Chemotherapy, how many good cells are killed off compared to bad cells? If you want to deal with the cancer, you have no choice.

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Yet it seems that you expect us to lay low and do nothing.
You can argue that the number of casualties in Israel is much lower than in Lebanon. But what did you expect? Do you want us to drop one bomb for every rocket they launch? Do you expect us to wait until we'll have enough casualties to justify the number of casualties on the other side? Did you think that our missiles will do the same damage as theirs?

It's impossible to fight terror without casualties. And as much as I'm sorry for every innocent civilian that's getting hurt (on either side). I still don't think that we are using any more force than any other country would have used in our stead, despite what they say when it's not them that is being attacked.

I don't expect you to lay low and do nothing. Some of us live in the real world where there ARE people out there willing to kill you just for religion or national identity.

In my book, the defender can use an unlimited amount of force to get the attacker off you. It's amazing how much crap Israel gets considering how many times your neighbors have tried to remove you from the world atlas.

I was speaking idiomatically.

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How would you ensure the safety of your country's citizens? What’s your solution?

No one's responded to this question yet.

There's a whole lot of condemming Israel but no one has presented a REAL and workable solution.

Remember that the ball is IN Hezbollah's and Lebanon's camp.

Hezbollah: We've had enough of Lebanese citizens dying. We will return the two soldiers and stop firing into Israel.

Lebanon: We've had enough of Lebanese citizens dying. Fuck Hezbollah. We have no choice but to shut them down. If necessary, we will ask for outside help in order to make it happen.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

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The UN has issued an order of cease of fire, an IMMEDIATE one, but the US f888ked it up and put a vito on it then came back afterwards and ordered a cease of fire. SO why put a vito in the first place? This shows you that the US doesn't care at all about Lebanon.

So if you suckerpunch me, I get up and start kicking your ass, is it really fair for me to not finish the fight?

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t's not there fault the war had clached. They gave israel 3 days of no firing back and offered an exchange for the lebanese who are old prisonners of war in Israel. But no, it seems that destroying all the bridges in lebanon seems to be the solution to get the soldiers back. And so i give you a proof that they don't give a shit about their soldiers, the 2 soldiers issue was not brought up in the solution gondaliza rice brought to lebanon.

What the hell? When was the last time Israel and Hezbollah were in direct conflict? 15, 20 years? You sucker punch Israel and then have the gall to ask for a prisoner exchange? Why not SIMPLY DO THE TWO FOLLOWING EASY STEPS?

1.) Return the two captured soldiers.
2.) Cease attacks on Israeel.

I mean, how hard is it to follow two incredibly easy ideas. Here's another one to consider. Don't attack Israel to begin with.

What Hezzbolah did was a declaration of war. Destroying the bridges is to ensure that those soldiers REMAIN in Lebanon.

I don't really care for what Condeleeza Rice is saying or not saying, it's not the US's war.

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So you are issueing another lebanese civil war right? Because last time someone asked something similar, we were down into a 15 years civil war.

Well, make a choice. Civil war with yourselves to purge yourself of Hezzbollah or war with Israel? So if you choose to take no self-corrective action, then how can Israel be blamed for anything but self defense?

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And let me break it to you: Hezbollah is not only a military organisation. They have ministers in the goverment, they have a big part of the lebanese parlement and have 1/4th of the lebanese people with them which is 1 million lebanese citizen with them. So how easy is your solution?

That only hurt's your case. So if Hezbollah is an elected and recognized government then does that make the people who elected Hezbollah responsible for it's actions?

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When they throw bombs that are FORBIDDEN internationally and that are making people die in the most horrifying ways and have corpses that are in a shape like never seen before that is collatoral damage right?

So if Hezzbollah had chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons they would refrain using them on Israel due to being "forbidden internationally?"

I'm sorry but no one looks pretty after being hit by a rocket or 50mm shells. I'm sure the victims of rocket attacks in Israel don't look all that great either you know.

FELIPE NO

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being bullied by powerful, mean Arab states

Learn2history.

Israel has been bullied many many times by those powerful mean arab states say since DAY 1 of Israel's formation?

No analogies here. Look up
Israel War of Independence
Six-Day War
Yom Kippur War

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

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Israel has negotiated with Hezbollah in dealing with prisoners before. Both groups have prisoners of each other and would like them back.

<sigh> I can't believe people are STILL using this as a pathetic excuse to justify Hezzbolah's actions. Once a bitch, always a bitch eh? Maybe Israel is tired of being pushed around?

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Israel has been brutally slaughtering innocents for an action, while serious, amounts to very little and could be resolved through diplomacy. Israel's behavior is more of that of a terrorist orginization than a soverign state.

That and other similiar asserations are soo much bullshit. Answer one question:

1.) Is Israel using its full military might on Lebanon?

maybe some other side issues to consider is why isn't Israel using it's nuclear weapons if its intent was to cause maximum civillian casulties? Why is Israel bothering to tell people to evacuate ahead of time? Why is Israel doing house to house fighting when it could just level the entire city?

I mean damn... if a military general was aiming for maximum civillian casulties they sure SUCK AT IT.

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Hezbollah having southern Beirut as a stronghold does not justify blasting the entire city under the pretense of collateral damage.

So Hezzbollah as an organization cares so much about their own people that they will ONLY operate in the Southern Lebanon theater and promise not to run north?

Whether Hezbollah is a terrorist organization or not is open and shut case.

Whether the Lebanese citizens who *VOTED* Hezzbolah into power and refusing to disarm them should pay for Hezzbolah's crimes is a little trickier.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

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It tends to be the case that Israel does a lot of the pushing. Palestine jumps to mind pretty quickly.

So Israel's latest incursion into Gaza was completely unprovoked? Remember that there is relative peace in the area UNTIL some suicide bomber decides to blow uo a cafe or schoolbus.

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And yet they've still managed to kill roughly 700 civilians, and considering the amount of ordinance used for an army roughly 3000 strong, its excessive.

Also, they've done a pretty good job of leveling cities anyways. Beirut, Tyre, and a few other places have taken billions of dollars worth of damage.

If you added up the potential killing power of all the ordnance dropped thus far, wouldn't the numbers killed be in the hundreds of thousands if Israel was REALLY trying to kill civillians? If Hezzbolah would fight Israel toe to toe instead of hidng among innocent Lebanese the fight would be over quicker and less innocents would have to die.

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Which is exactly the most important point of this all.

Let's face it: The only one thing that is already certain about the war is that nothing good will come of it. Whatever happens - Hezbollah will emerge strengthened. If there had been hopes in the past that Lebanon would slowly become a normal country, where Hezbollah would be deprived of a pretext for maintaining a military force of its own, they were now provided with the perfect justification: Israel is destroying Lebanon, only Hezbollah is fighting to defend the country. Nobody else is.

You forget that "not being a bitch" is worth fighting for - worth dying for, worth killing for. Israel MUST do what a soverign nation must do when terrorized.

You are willfully ignorant if you think that Hezzbolah was going to disarm anytime soon.

Who here REALLY thinks that Hezzbolah is "defending" Lebanon. Hezzbolah isn't doing shit. THey have:

-Killed approximately 100 IDF soldiers and Israel civillians
-Kidnapped two IDF soldiers

in exchange for

-700? dead Lebanese civillians
-Billions in damage

(Adamgian numbers).

You think if Hezzbolah really gave a damn about their country they would stop the fighting. My argument of not being a bitch doesn't apply to Hezzbolah. The reason this is the case is in a fight, Hezzbolah will lose and therefor should not be starting a fight to begin with.

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Ok, there are rocket attacks in Haifa in the north, but based on the death and injury tolls, it is relatively little compared to sophisticated carnage created by the Israeli precision strikes.

How quick are we to devalue Israeli life? Maybe Israel cares enough about it's citizens to respond to any and all aggression. If me and you were at war (and if it's one that you started) I really don't care how many of you I kill to save 1 of my lives - ESPECIALLY SINCE YOU STARTED IT.

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Ok, there are rocket attacks in Haifa in the north, but based on the death and injury tolls, it is relatively little compared to sophisticated carnage created by the Israeli precision strikes.

Maybe the damage done due to Israeli precision weapons and WARNING people to leave has resulted in relatively little death and damage tolls compared to what could be happening?

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You have to remember that past conflicts with Lebanon have been resolved with dialogue and diplomacy; ie a government open to discussion.

UN Conversation to Lebanon: Hi there Lebanon, we were wondering if Hezzbolah could kindly disarm it's military wing?

Lebanese government: Hezzbolah IS the government biatch! HAHA. Elected and everything!

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Maybe Israel do suck at military strategy. This attempt to crush Hezbollah over a couple of soldiers has gone on for three weeks and killed more civilians than terrorists, so wouldn’t you say that this quick show of strength has backfired?

You tell me what you would have done if your country was attacked the way it was hmmmmmm?

Also, who expects Israel or ANYONE in their situation to backdown in the current situation.

Scenario 1 - Israel withdraws from Lebanon = Hezzbolah victory
Scenario 2 - Israel agrees to a ceasefire without the return of soldiers = Hezzbolah victory.

Has no one ever kicked ass or gotten their ass kicked in the playgrounds? Same shit here, there are protocols that must be followed.

--
Look. The best solution moving forward is the Lebanese deciding that they have had enough of the Hezzbolah dogs shitting in their neighbors yard and dealing with it. Will it be costly? Yes? No fence sitting on this one. What will be more costly

1.) Continue to fight with Israel until the end of time?

2.) Friggin expel Hezzbolah.

Double Post:

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People seem to be twisting this issue to no end. Just because myself and others are calling Israel terrorists, that doesn't mean we aren't calling Hezbollah terrorists, either. Both sides are committing acts of terrorism. Make no mistake about that. But Israel is taking this way farther than Hezbollah could ever hope to.

The ball was always in Hezzbolah's court. They could of not started this shit to begin with for one. Two, they could have returned the soldiers anytime between then and NOW and Israel would have much less of a leg to stand on.

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Israel's full military might has nothing to do with this. The same question could be asked of the United States Army in Afghanistan and Iraq, and the answer would be no. Of course they aren't. But no matter what their restraint is, hundreds of people are still dying. That's why it's not relevant to this issue.

My question was in response to a statement that Israel was INTENTIONALLY killing civilians. They are not. If they were, they would be using their full military might wouldn't they?

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That's complete lunacy. Do you honestly think Israel would use a nuclear bomb to get rid of Hezbollah? If Israel was that stupid, we wouldn't be here to tell the tale.

Hezzbolah would no doubt used a nuclear weapon on Israel - without disregard that Lebanon would probably be hit by 20 afterwards.

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And Israel is not going to just wipe everybody out because that's not how modern warfare is fought. What they're doing instead is bombing civilian infrastructures, transport routes, and other strategic civilian targets in an attempt to starve the country instead.

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No, they don't. Because if this war continues, more people will die from a lack of food, water, and medicine than the IDF could ever hope to kill.

You are right. You have seen the tactical situation. Now what will you do assuming Israel does not back down?

Defang Hezzbolah or let your people starve?

There's nowhere I can't reach.

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This very sentence shows how lacking your knowledge of the entire conflict in the middle east is.

Oh really? I actually know the history on why Israel was in Lebanon in the first place. Do you?

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So Lebanon was just "chilling" and Israel decided to come and invade them for the hell of it?

1.) The Fatah - Revolution Council attempted to assasinate Shlomo Argov, the ambassador to the UK.

2.) Repeated shelling of Israeli towns by the PLO from Lebanon.

3.) Palestinians begin massive arms buildup, tripling their artillery cannons and rocket launchers to ramp up the shelling of Israeli towns.

If you were a soverign nation being shelled by your neighbor what would you do? You would secure the area where the artillery/rockets were being fired from to remove their range wouldn't you? Maybe invasion was too heavy handed a response? Either case, Israeli responded to attacks upon it's civillian centers.

also

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http://www.gamingforce.com/forums/po...le-east-2.html

No one's rebutted me yet, since I am seem to have no understanding of how people in the middle east operate?

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Like an organisation such as the Hezbollah can "lose" anything at all.

Their fellow country suffering for a stupid reason. Guess they don't care or should of thought of that before they abducted those soldiers to begin with?

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Would you just sit idly by while a superior army invades your country? If Israel's actions to "defend" themselves against terrorists by invading another sovereign country is legit, then the Hezbollah's fight against this invader is just as legit and will draw a lot of support from the people because Hezbollah are the only ones standing up to fight, not because they are a terrorist organization.

Actually, for the most part Lebanon is standing idle. Do you see the non Hezzbolah elements deploying the state army or making tactical operations against Israel? Hezbollah is just that dumbass cousin at the family reunions that you can't stand but have to tolerate for some god unknown reason.

Basically there is a time to fight and a time to disarm. In this scenario, resisting Israel only hurts Lebanon and increases the suffering of innocents. Israel by FAR is a superior force and Lebanon/Hezzbolah stand absolutely no chance in a ridiculously one sided battle. Think of two scenarios depending on Israel's intentions:

1.) Israel intends to occupy all of Lebanon. Israel plans on enslaving all the males, killing the children and raping the women.

Appropiate response: Fight tooth and nail with everything you have. Die on your feet instead of your knees.

2.) Israel is tired of your dumbass cousin Hezbollah and is coming to kick his ass. Once the cousin is gone, so is Israel.

Appropiate response: My dumbass cousin Hezzbolah has bases here, there, and there. Since I want peace with you and I don't care much for my cousin, let me help you kick his ass.

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Tony, what I'm trying to say is that you seem to lack the ability to put yourself in the place of the Lebanese people.

What about Israel? Each Israeli citizen's day could be their very last. And this doesn't apply to the other countries as Israel doesn't do random attacks. To also think I don't care about the Lebanese is also a mistake. I'm trying to help by stating the obvious fucking answer: Disarm those Hezzbola bitches.

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Oh, so go ahead and blame the suicide bomber. They wouldn't be blowing shit up in the first place if Israel hadn't invaded the Gaza Strip. The egg comes before the chicken, man. At least in this case.

If you want to play history, we can drag this out back to the Biblical days. Let's just sum it up like this:

1000BC - Now.
(Thousands of years of pissing on each other, warfare, plundering, bla bla bla)

Relatively peace for 2 years.

After 2 years, does Israel go back into the Gaza strip to start shit up again? HELL NO. Some Palestinian group gets bored and is itching to kill some children. Fighting resumes. If you want to play chicken and egg, we can safely say its Hamas and related entities "hatching new eggs".

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And Hezbollah must do what the people of an invaded nation must do when they are under attack; fight back.

They certainly have the right to. It's just pointless for them to do so. The reason why they shouldn't fight back and why Israel has to invade is because HEZZBOLAH STARTED IT. The person who got sucker punched doesn't have to back off.

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Where did that even come from? How can you take civilian casualties and say that because Hezbollah hasn't killed as many people, that they aren't "defending Lebanon"?

Where did that come from? - It's called looking at the bigger picture. Each additional Israeli innocent killed from random rocket attacks only increases the pressure and duration that the IDF must remain in Lebanon. You tell me in what way has Hezzbolah made any tactical progress against Israel?

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Be consistent. If Israel gave a damn about its citizens, it might realize that going to war over 2 soldiers put its citizens in even more harm for every Lebanese citizen they kill. They are just creating more terrorism.

Do you REALLY believe that it would have stopped with those two soldiers? The entire middle east has been chomping at the bit to eliminate Israel from the map since what.. 1947?

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You just don't get it, do you? I'm telling you, this whole business about "restraint" is garbage. As long as the Israelis are still slaughtering Lebanese 9 to 1, does "restraint" really matter if it's already a massacre to begin with?

No, its YOU who doesn't get it. When Israel is *capable* of irradiating half of Lebanon, creating a no occupancy zone which GUARANTEES that Rockets from Lebanon can not hit Israel and chooses not to do it - it's called restraint.

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You're forgetting one scenario:
3. Israel continues to fight in Lebanon for decades, never disarming Hezbollah=Hezbollah wins.

If you think Israel will succeed in wiping out Hezbollah, you're going to be waiting for a long time.

You tell me what Israel can do then to get rid of Hezzbolah master genius?
Enough pressure hasn't been applied to Lebanon yet if they are still choosing Hezzbolah over the rest of the country.

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No, the ball wasn't always in Hezbollah's court. Even if they had returned those soldiers, Israel would still be in Lebanon, for the same reasons they are now. But this isn't about those 2 soldiers.

Hezbollah might not have felt compelled to abduct those 2 soldiers if the Israelis hadn't been holding thousands of Lebanese and Palestinians in prison, most of them probably civilians. And Hezbollah also wouldn't be around if Israel hadn't invaded Lebanon in the 80s.

So you are saying that if Hezzbolah suddenly announced that they were:

1.) Returning the two soldiers.
2.) Halting all rocket attacks into Israel

that Israel would continue it's attacks? I really dont think so. But impossible to prove since Hezzbolah would never do such a thing.

Oh and regarding Israel invading Lebanon in the 80's? Maybe if the PLO didnt shoot rockets into Israel from the 80's they wouldn't of invaded to begin with?

Owned.

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Yes, they are intentionally killing innocent civilians. Full military might my ass. You don't have to have your whole military in a country to kill innocent civilians. Again, your point is irrevelant. If the Israeli wasn't intending for civilians to die, then why did they bomb the airports so the civilians couldn't leave? Hezbollah's not going anywhere. Why are they bombing bridges so civilians can't escape their towns? Why are they blowing up aid routes so that people can't get food? All of this is intentional, man. And people will die as a consequence of this.

Blame Hezzbolah.

Those airports could have been used to move the soldiers. Those bridges roads could be used for Hezzbolah fighters to sneak out or rockets moved. More than just the Red Cross uses roads ya know.

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I find it odd how you ask the Lebanese government to respond, when they are victims of this crisis too. When Israel is targeting Lebanese troops as well, how is the government going to be able to do anything about Hezbollah in the future? With no airports, roads, food, water, the Lebanese government can't do anything even if they wanted to. And they probably aren't going to do anything in the future. The ball will never be in their court, because they weren't playing the game to begin with.

Oh. Sources please on Israel targeting Lebanese soldiers? Sources please on Israel arresting and killing Lebanese government officials.

Yes, the ball is in their court for not doing something about Hezzbolah to begin with and allowing them to be a part of the government. I'm sorry, if a Hezzbolah agent tried to hide in my house and open up my family to risk from an Israeli bomb I would shoot the agent.

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Except there's one big difference. The Germans were invading Britain.

Going into MY country, abducting MY soldiers is an invasion. Try Six-Day war as well and Israel didn't level arab contries in comparasion.

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Israel controls a lot of occupied land however, including the Shebaa Farms, Golan Heights, and East Jerusalem. You want peace, give the Arabs back their land.

Weren't you completely owned in the prospect of peace in the middle east thread? Israel has very very specific reasons for having those territories and lets not forget that had those countries not attacked Israel to begin with - they would have those lands wouldn't they? You play, you pay.

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And yet less 50 Israeli civilians have been killed, compared to 700 Lebanese. The Israeli's are hardly suffering compared to the Lebanese and the Palestinians, and any argument otherwise is a lie.

So 650 more Israeli deaths would satisfy you? That's a fairly evil thought isnt it? It's not Israel's fault that they are stronger. It's Hezzbolah's fault for attacking.

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For the past 60 years Israel has used the concept of "thinking long term" to justify its actions against the Arabs. Where has that gotten you? Israel needs a new policy of treating their neighbors like humans instead of trash if it ever wants to survive.

Over the past 60 years, multiple arab nations have gotten together in an attempt to destroy Israel. Who's the unfriendly neighbor now?

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Hezbollah occasionally did store weapons in or near civilian homes and fighters placed rocket launchers within populated areas or near U.N. observers, which are serious violations of the laws of war because they violate the duty to take all feasible precautions to avoid civilian casualties.

Ohh.. I love the word "occasionally". What the hell does that mean? If Hezzbolah even ONCE placed rockets or ammunition in civillians areas then they are responsible for all those deaths.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.