Battlestar Galactica New Series

I do not like Battlestar Galactica.

As I've expressed before, I find it wholly generic. Look at the discussions in the show -- ooh, big explosions, sex robots, etc. These things alone are not entirely bad, but Battlestar Galactica has also somehow managed to convince masses of fandom that incredibly generic things it does are somehow brilliant. That alone bugs me. If it were the most entertaining show in the universe - and it's not, it's a very very generic drama that's set in space - it would still have had no clever commentary whatsoever. It's ER at its worst in space.

I've been thinking about all this lately, and it's begun to crystalize in my mind that modern mass media science fiction is very, very selfish. It's my generation wanting something fast and cheap.

Think about it -- when we were kids, why did we get into science fiction? Because there were shows like ST:TNG or movies like Star Wars that we could enjoy on our level while our parents loved them on another. Now we've grown up, we're in charge and what do we want? Sex, violence and language thrown in our face as quickly as possible to remind us we're *adults* now!

That, plus continuity - we want as much continuity as possible. If our modern shows aren't making us feal special for having watched them and read their novels and such then to heck with them! Look at Enterprise, look at the new Star Wars movies. We like to stroke our little beards and damn them for X, Y or Z reason... which are valid only in so far as the same vauge criticisms can be applied to any genre production ever ('plot', 'character development', etc.). In reality, the reason we damned them was because they're not the giant expanded continuity blob we made up for ourselves. No Romulans?! No Z-95 Headhunters? Well, after 25 years I suddenly care about dramatic concerns...!

We took over the game and we're running it into the ground. There's no next generation od kids playing with Battlestar Galactica action figures and dreaming about being Viper pilots... because Battlestar Galactica is a stupid useless make-you-feel-good-for-doing-nothing production that's symbolic of everything that's wrong with us.

Battlestar Galactica is about as subtle as a tonne of bricks... even in a literal sense, the characters are by no means the "complex" objects marketing would like you to insist to everyone -- Captain Adama and Girl President always make up eventually, tough woman fighter pilot and pretty boy fighter pilot will always be the heroes in the end, evil drunk XO never will be (unless they decide to kill him, when he'll go out in an equally generic blaze of glory that makes us all *think*!).

Battlestar Galactica deals with 'issues' (nay: the human condition! that sound intellectual in its vaugness!) in excatly the same manner as does an afternoon soap opera or an hour of 90210. The difference is that 90210 is lots of easy fun and you don't have to deal with insufferable 90210 fans insisting that the show is carefully crafting a brilliant symbol with its treatment of Dylan's father issues. Robots having sex, robots having abortions, robots arguing about religion are not clever issues and the discussion adds nothing to any of these topics - they're the same cheap, easy, common issues that every sagging drama in the universe brings out for sweeps. But here they're *in space*, so they're brilliant and subtle and clever!

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Musharraf

Also, why is Starbuck a girl now?? O_O

Because it's *so* edgy and new and neon.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Rock

Hey, this is one of my favorite shows right now and I have to strongly disagree with LeHah, because the "new" Battlestar Galactica is anything but generic. It's actually a very unique sci fi experience with just about the right mix of action, characters and in-depth story

In depth my Irish ass. Name one thing in this show thats never been covered in another show.

You're just fucking stupid is all.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Borg1982

I thought Season 1, including the miniseries, was excellent television.

SUPER NEON BATTLESTAR GALACTICA 2003 - PART ONE
by Ron Moore

PROLOGUE


EXT. POORLY CGI'D SPACE STATION

(Note: Since actually showing anything remotely interesting on-screen is anathema to this production, all background information will be provided via onscreen text. No, really.}

Text: MANKIND INVENTED CYLONS. BUT CYLONS WERE EVIL AND BAD. THEN THERE WAS A WAR. LATER, THE CYLONS WENT AWAY AND EVERYONE FORGOT ABOUT THEM. A POORLY CGI'D SPACE STATION WAS SET UP TO MONITOR THE PEACE, BECAUSE ACTUALLY CHECKING ON THE EVIL WAR ROBOTS PROGRAMMED TO KILL US SEEMS LIKE TOO MUCH WORK. ALSO, IF THE CYLONS BLOW UP THE POORLY CGI'D SPACE STATION SET UP TO MONITOR THE PEACE, NO ONE WILL CARE AND THEY WILL STILL ACHIEVE A COMPLETE SURPRISE ATTACK.

INT. POORLY CGI'D SPACE STATION

ADMIRAL MOTTI
As a Battlestar Galactica fan, I sure love my folder of blueprints! Also, look at this picture of my kids! That humanizes me!

Enter SOME CYLONS

ADMIRAL MOTTI
I'm not especially interested in SOME CYLONS.

Enter A GIRL CYLON

ADMIRAL MOTTI
A GIRL CYLON! Lets have sex!

GIRL CYLON
Okay, because that makes sense. Also, we're blowing up the space station now. We just came over to the space station that we're in the process of blowing up to let you know that it's being blown up. And for some sex. During the blowing up.

EXT. POORLY CGI'D SPACE STATION

The POORLY CGI'D SPACE STATION *BLOWS UP*!


SCENE TWO


INT. BATTLESTAR GALACTICA HALLWAY

TOUR GUIDE
Originally, Battlestar Galactica was a midly entertaining ripoff of Star Wars, but now...

TOUGH GIRL PILOT
Make room! I'm a tough girl pilot! Take note of this!

FAT MEXICAN CAPTAIN
I hate technology, because of the Cylons are going to use it to destroy the world! I blame myself for my son dying! The president has breast cancer!


SCENE THREE


INT. BATTLESTAR GALACTICA POKER ROOM

TOUGH GIRL PILOT (Smoking a *CIGAR*! Because she's *TOUGH*!)
Poker? I just met her!

ANDROGYNOUS PILOT
Hah hah hah hah.

OTHER GIRL PILOT
I guess that's why they call you WHAT YOUR NAME IS.

TOUGH GIRL PILOT
And your skill for exposition is why they call you WHAT YOUR NAME IS.

ANDROGYNOUS PILOT
Hah hah hah hah.

TOUGH GIRL PILOT
All I did was sit in Lt. Cmdr. Chen's fighter!

HUNTER
She's a *PILGRIM*! You're under arrest!


SCENE FOUR


Text: "CAPRICORN ONE / CAPRICORN CITY / PLANET CAPRICORN / CAPRICORN SYSTEM / CAPRICORN GALAXY"

GIRL CYLON
I guess I didn't blow up afterall. Now I can have sex with Baltar.

BALTAR
Yay! Here are the command codes.

GIRL CYLON
But do you *love* me?

BALTAR
Sure.

GIRL CYLON
Hah hah, you love a robot.

BALTAR
Now, for a sexy, mature pun.

GIRL CYLON
I'm *HOT*! (GIRL CYLON GLOWS GLOWS RED HOT)


SCENE FIVE


EXT. CAPRICORN ONE MARKET

GIRL CYLON
We're going to destroy this entire planet with nuclear weapons! But people won't know I'm evil unless...

{ENTER - A BABY}

GIRL CYLON
... I kill A BABY!

(GIRL CYLON kills A BABY)


SCENE SIX


INT. BATTLESTAR GALACTICA BRIDGE

FAT MEXICAN CAPTAIN (giving a speech)
A lot of people have died on Battlestar Galactica, daggit. But the most important casuality... was my sons love for his father! I'm sorry, ENTIRELY NON MEXICAN SON, that I let you down in a matter entirely unrelated to the important decomissioning speech I'm giving!

MISTER OBUTU
Sir, Cylons are attacking the fleet! There's a huge battle going on! Thirty Battlestars have been destroyed!

FAT MEXICAN CAPTAIN
That sounds interesting! Can we see it?

MISTER OBUTU
No.


THE END

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Night Phoenix

You're such a racist, Lehah.

And you're a nigger. Don't blame me for being racist if your shitty, stupid God made me racist and you black. It wasn't my decision!

sarcasm

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Borg1982

Where else are you going to find a nuked planet with minimal survivors running for their lives?

A Boy And His Dog, The Day After, On The Beach, Ikimono no kiroku (though thats more about the fear of nuclear destruction), the Mad Max series. To a lesser degree the Terminator series. Fucking shit, Godzilla is just a big-ass metaphor for that. Christ, I can cite EC comic books from the 50s that are "Post-Apocalypse" stories. And you're telling me that 50+ years of the genre and you decide theres something new to say? Harlan Ellison would probably scream at you worse than I am right now, you ignorant, unread, undereducated cocksucking fag-tagger.

There is nothing that is stated in Battlestar Galactica that is new or fresh or revolutionary. Everything in sci-fi has been done before by much better writers for the last century.

Originally Posted by Borg1982

You go back to your comfortable TNG for the rest of your life, then, I don't give a shit.

What a surprise -- the guy who thinks watching Battlestar Galactica makes him intelligent also thinks he's some kind of unique message board genius. None of what you've just said has anything to do with Battlestar Galactica. You're an angry teenager wailing out a personal attack because I dared make fun of your... television show? What the hell? Here, people, here is what is wrong with your fandom!

You thought this was the best way to make your point? No one can look at that mess and take it seriously.

You're no martyr, you're just a dumbass.

Look, you've been sold a cheap, thinly veiled peice of shit. Look at the original Star Trek's Vietnam episode... it's probably the most fair, most subtle mass media critique of the war... Battlestar Galactica isn't cutting a new path, it's stepping where everyone else has been while yelling that it's special at the top of its lungs.

Battlestar Galactica: Edgily tackling the most difficult religious issue: Greco-Roman Pantheon versus Judeochristian God! Take that, 23 AD!

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Borg1982

You evidentally have a lot of anger problems.

Does someone pay you to do this? Or do you just find satisfaction in stating the obvious for the last 4 years I've been here, fucktard

Originally Posted by Borg1982

I am probably much older than you too.

I'm older than you by a year and seven months.

Originally Posted by Borg1982

And ive never heard of hose shows you just mentioned.

Then I suggest finding them, because, you know, Akira Kurosawa did some pretty fucking great movies. (I can't believe you've never heard of The Day After - that was the biggest TV movie of the Regan era)

Originally Posted by Borg1982

I'm replying to points about the main subject. You are just resorting to attacks.

Well, the easy answer is that it's because I am an intellectual in my everyday life. I'm sure you become similarly annoyed when you see people loading pigs onto trucks backwards.

I fail to see how you putting up a quote like that is going to make me rethink what I'm saying here. Truth be told queer-o, I've made many long, concise points that you've skipped over entirely because, you know, you don't have anything intelligent to say about the Judeochristian bullshit symbolism that BSG vomits out like a college student on spring break.

Heres a list of concise points you've never even answered to yet:

*"These things alone are not entirely bad, but Battlestar Galactica has also somehow managed to convince masses of fandom that incredibly generic things it does are somehow brilliant."

*"it's a very very generic drama that's set in space - it would still have had no clever commentary whatsoever."

*"Think about it -- when we were kids, why did we get into science fiction? Because there were shows like ST:TNG or movies like Star Wars that we could enjoy on our level while our parents loved them on another. Now we've grown up, we're in charge and what do we want? Sex, violence and language thrown in our face as quickly as possible to remind us we're *adults* now!"

*"Battlestar Galactica deals with 'issues' (nay: the human condition! that sound intellectual in its vaugness!) in excatly the same manner as does an afternoon soap opera or an hour of 90210. The difference is that 90210 is lots of easy fun and you don't have to deal with insufferable 90210 fans insisting that the show is carefully crafting a brilliant symbol with its treatment of Dylan's father issues. Robots having sex, robots having abortions, robots arguing about religion are not clever issues and the discussion adds nothing to any of these topics - they're the same cheap, easy, common issues that every sagging drama in the universe brings out for sweeps. But here they're *in space*, so they're brilliant and subtle and clever!"

*"None of what you've just said has anything to do with Battlestar Galactica. You're an angry teenager wailing out a personal attack because I dared make fun of your... television show? What the hell? Here, people, here is what is wrong with your fandom!"

How about you ditch the smarmy-ass attitude that I'm flaming when all you're doing is completely ignoring the obvious discussion I'm making.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Majin yami

To be fair, BSG is a generic sci-fi show. But then I don't watch it because it's supposed to be thought provoking or deep. I enjoy it because it's something to sit down and watch and enjoy.

And thats perfectly fine. The problem is when someone thinks theres brilliant subtext - when there actually isn't any subtext at all.

Originally Posted by Rock

Can we stop with the bashing and discuss the show already?

Yeah, we can't disagree about anything if it pisses someone else off! (Get bent)

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Borg1982

...I'm being flamed. It wasn't whining...

Yeah, it's everyone else's fault. Christ, stop it. You're running this thread into the ground and its left you behind already.

Most amazing jew boots

Originally Posted by Borg1982

1. Point 1, agreed. There is plenty of Judeochristian type crap and I am not at all a religious person. But I watch the show for different reasons. I could care less if they are religious people and a lot of symbols in the show are religious. It's not real life. It's a show.

What started out as amusing in the 70s became a heavy-handed plot point in Super Neon BSG. Its it's attempt to feign "heavy" issues by adding nonsense religious crap to a thinly veiled show.

Originally Posted by Borg1982

2. Which generic things? Examples?

I stated this previously: "Robots having sex, robots having abortions, robots arguing about religion are not clever issues and the discussion adds nothing to any of these topics - they're the same cheap, easy, common issues that every sagging drama in the universe brings out for sweeps. But here they're *in space*, so they're brilliant and subtle and clever!"

Originally Posted by Borg1982

3. Commentary from whom? Explain this point.

Not from whom, from the show. Theres nothing interesting or new or fresh. It's the same house with new paint slapped on. People were sold the same nonsense with Firefly - is anyone else aware that River Tam is the most horribly overt peice of exposition put to sci-fi television? - but the fact of the matter is that everything BSG tackles has been covered in 90210. In fact, 90210 is more accessible because we have never lived on a space station or met humanoid robots. But because the show has humanoid robots having sex with people and space abortions and big explosions, it's suddenly a MAJOR INTELLECTUAL EVENT when it isn't.

Again, an earlier statement of mine: "Like all these things, Battlestar Galactica is about as subtle as a tonne of bricks... even in a literal sense, the characters are by no means the "complex" objects marketing would like you to insist to everyone -- Captain Adama and Girl President always make up eventually, tough woman fighter pilot and pretty boy fighter pilot will always be the heroes in the end, evil drunk XO never will be (unless they decide to kill him, when he'll go out in an equally generic blaze of glory that makes us all *think*!)."

Originally Posted by Borg1982

4. BSG isn't about sex or having sex. The show also is not about sex robots for the purpose of doing such a thing. Who cares if there have been some minimal "sex" scenes. Sex is apart of real life, as it is for people in the show. What is wrong with this "violence" thing you speak of? Every Sci Fi is violent in some fashion. What parts in what eps are violent but unnecessarily so?

I disagree. We don't need sex in sci-fi, per se. We went without it for years and years and years. The fact that they're putting it in so readily now is just a cheap selling point to bring in viewers and to give nerds a hardon for nerd sci-fi actresses. See, we as a generation have fucked ourselves into a ground with this crap. It use to be that we enjoyed Star Wars as a kid because of its effects and its adventure while our parents could appreciate it as something more than that. Now that we're older, we need to be coddled into being reminded that now that we're adults - sex! drugs! robot abortions! We're ruining the genre by making it all about selling points and nothing about plot. We're watching "Gone In 60 Seconds" when we should be renting "Bullit".

Originally Posted by Borg1982

5. The issues on BSG are done differently than real life because there are conscious robots in the show.

Been done MANY, MANY time before by MANY, MANY better writers. Off the top of my head, I can think of the original Outer Limits doing an Adam Link episode in Season 2. That predates this crap by, what, about 40 years?

Originally Posted by Borg1982

If you didn't like the idea of thinking robots from the beginning why in the HELL would you watch any episodes?

The idea of robots do not bother me.

The idea of robots having sex and killing babies and attacking stations for no reasonable explaination bothers me. You realize - they could've sold this series without it being a slap-dash sequel to the original BSG, right? It could've been called "Station 3232" or "Attack Force 4L" or "Whats Happenin'? The Next Generation" and it would've sold.

I also watch the show so I know what I'm talking about. I don't jump into arguements without knowing something about the subject, just like I don't go hunting without a rifle.

Originally Posted by Borg1982

I hate when people are hypocrits and who hate the entire concept but have still seen a good share (or all) of the show.

As opposed to you - who makes no clear or discernable arguement, point, counterpoint, thought, idea, inkling or theory about anything in this thread? You basicly just take your time to say "no, you're wrong" and leave it at that. That shit doesn't work on me - you're just making yourself seem more of an ass. RoboJesus and one of the mods already pointed that out.

Originally Posted by Borg1982

When I tried out "LOST" and realized I hated it, I deleted it immediately and will never watch it again.

I do not watch Lost. So I do not make posts in threads dealing with Lost.

Originally Posted by Borg1982

Your curiosity is getting the better of you and there is some part of you that likes something in it.

You want to like BSG? Thats fine - ain't my problem. I like stuff that other people hate. But I don't put on airs and say its important or intelligent or brilliant. If that show adds something to how you think, you're uneducated - and I mean that in the most lowly sense of the word. The day television teaches you something, I want you to shoot yourself.

Originally Posted by Borg1982

6. It's not "my" TV show. I like many more better. As I said, season 2 has been pretty weak to me. Honestly, how did you like season 1? Season 2?

I hate the show. But then, I also hate George Bush - but that does not stop me from watching the news, does it? I need to know what he's doing in order to have a right to complain - as opposed to college students or antiwar protesters.

You've only proven my point. BSG is loaded down with morons who cannot come to a clear concise point of defense in which to bolster themselves on.

There's nowhere I can't reach.