The Immigration Protests

While America was based upon the very foundation of immigration, the problem is that immigration today is not what it meant to be 100 years ago.

The fact that people repeatedly beat their chests that "the first illegal immigrants were the Pilgrims!" is fucking asinine. For the Pilgrims to be illegal immigrants, they would have to be landing in an established nation with laws. I suppose one could argue that the Native Americans had laws - but they weren't a nation so much as a large series of regionalized clans who's laws changed with their borders.

Yes, the pilgrims landed in America - but so did the goddamned Vikings many, many years before them.

The problem with this immigration situation is that Bush wants it done *his* way. He wants to police our borders - yet calls the civilians who were doing border patrol as "vigilantes". It will boil down to this - either the GOP gets its way and loses all of its power when its voted out or the GOP gives ground and we lose immigration reform.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Igod82

Le hah There is even some people who Claim the chineese landed in America before the vikings - what does this prove

Another apt statement. It takes the wind out of the sails of the pro-immigrant flag-wavers who are repeating that the Pilgrims were illegal immgrants. I mean, if they want to make a point about legal or illegal immigration, then they should be able to do without "finger pointing". "Oh the Pilgrims did it!" is not only incorrect but is borderline racist.

Originally Posted by Igod82

Some people may have come over here from Europe to escape tyranny and get freedoms - But in the End Greed is what the main cause became

I won't bother quoting Gordon Gecko.

I don't see how this is a major problem though. Ancient people crossed the landbridge that spanned from Russia to Alaska in whats assumed to be hunting parties while tracking wild animals. It's in Man's nature to spread out; I don't think thats greed so much as instinct. We don't refer to an increasing amount of poor people as "greed", do we?

Originally Posted by Igod82

The rulers of the countries pushed to explore and take over land for Money and Power nothing more, And in doing this they nearly wiped a Race of people off the planet, of which only Mutts like me Exist, that carry any of the blood.

Heres a sad fact for you: I'm an even bigger mutt than you. I mean, consider this - there is no such thing as being Irish. We were an English fishing colony that was attacked, plundered and raped by the Spanish and the Danes for decades. Then we were put under the rule of the English king, which we resented for over 700 years. My entire race is based on mass rape and then subserviant rule by a foreign power - we've been dicked for over 1,400 years. What the fuck do you have to complain about?

I don't decry the Spanish or the Danes for doing what they did because that was a long, long time ago and the people who did it are long dead. I'm not foolish enough to try and sued the countries for their sins against my forefathers. Your being a mutt doesn't mean shit to me because theres always someone that has it worse than you.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by gukarma

So you are advocating the criminalization and expulsion of 12 million people who are interwoven into the fabric of American society because in the past they comitted a crime, most likely in order to ensure their own and their family's survival?

Absolutely.

We're a nation of laws and crimes need to be punished. If anything, our justice system is too gimp-wristed as is. Punishment should be severe and inflict pain against the criminal to dissuade him against further acts of criminality. Who are we to deny that perfect mechanisim - learning through pain - that evolution put into us all those ages ago?

While I don't agree with the "they take away our jobs" mentality so many people have, illegal immigration has bled our health services and has repeatedly attempted to ratify their "right" to vote, which is just outlandish in its stupidity.

The fact remains this - its called "Illegal Immigration" because its illegal. You cannot quantify any sort of arguement in favor of illegal immigration without saying you want to break Federal laws. You are in the wrong, you are the problem.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I fail to see how not punishing people who know they've commited a crime has any value whatsoever.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by insertnamehere

I am sick and tired of people ignoring this part of the debate and how illegals are contributing more to the economy than draining.

While I do disagree with the statement that illegal immigrants are "adding" to America, I will admit that its a twist statement I did not suspect and will have to research further before coming to any complete conclusion. I think its only fair to research something you disagree with to find out if you are right or wrong in disagreeing with it.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Igod82

Le Hah - Heres a sad fact for you, U are in No way more mutt than me YOUR WHITE

Oh, so you're an admitted racist then. Why should I bother talking to you, if thats the case?

Fact remains - I'm black Irish. I have spanish blood in me somewhere because some sailor raped some fair-haired woman back in the year 700.

I'm more of a mutt than you will ever be because I'm white. See - when you're black, you're not black - you're from Nigeria. But when you're white, you're only white - you're not English or Lithueanian or Norweigan. You're seen as white. Validation of a white man's heritage is looked down upon just because of the suffering of Africans over 100 years ago.

Racism is backwards compatible.

Originally Posted by Igod82

Bottom line i dont agree with American laws regarding immigrants

Thats fine - I disagree with American gun control. But that doesn't give me the right to buy an illegal Russian asault rifle. And disagreeing with immigration law does not give you the right to come into the country illegally. If anything, by resisting immigration law by coming into the country illegally is only going to end up making immigration laws tougher for everyone, even people visiting other countries with have green cards or visas.

Answer me this: Why is it so hard to come to America legally? Why do you have to go out of your way to do it illegally, knowing you're doing it illegally and then think you reserve the right to bitch?

I'm sorry but the fact that you run a fruit stand does not reserve you the right to throw rotten produce at people who refuse to buy it.

Originally Posted by Igod82

But please dont make assumptions that Irish are a Race because if u look it up Clearly Irish has never been considered anything but white(Excluding Early America, and this is until they where accepted)

Yeah, if you ignore the fact that the Irish had their own language, their own heritage, their own legends, their own history, their own borders, their own way of life, their own basic culture - of course the Irish are only white. Just like how you're only a mutt without a country. You're a half-breed, a mongrel, a part-nigger wetback looking motherfucker.

Your sentiments echo Richard Wagner - whos antisemetic statements are well known. "A person without a country cannot write music" was what he said about Jews with instruments. And now you're telling me I'm "only white"? You are the lowest of the low - a contradiction who says he wants equal rights when all you want is special treatment. I'll spit in your fucking face if we ever meet. You're not even worth punching.

Your prattle about "only white" only succeeds in showing that you don't know shit about the subject. You're flapping your arms, screaming over an issue that you fail to research.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Igod82

I agree Irish had diffirent culture, values and such this does not make them a different race. Look up the Difference in Ethnicity, Race, Nationality, and you will cee what i mean.

Because you know better than to refute anything the internet says!

You're really a lost cause. At first I wondered if you were one of those people who makes points but doesn't make use of any sort of grammar, but this just proves that you have no points and have no sort of grammar let alone spelling or punctuation.

How do you expect anyone to take you seriously? "The internet told me so!" is about as lame as you can possibly get.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Igod82

Gumby i think you are an AMERICAN Fundamentalist and thats that.

Whats wrong with that? He's an American.

Originally Posted by Igod82

I do not in anyway say that people crossing the border illegal should not be punished.

Thats complete idiocy. If you do something wrong, you should be punished. Didn't your parents raise you like that? People knowingly cross our borders knowing its wrong and are NOT punished. This is a problem. They have no right to come here and abuse our health care system for free. How many people come to this country illegally to get some expensive, elaborate surgery at the expense of the tax payers? MANY. Our system is overrun with people specificly trying to get around being caught.

And how many of your illegal immigrants pay taxes? NONE.

See, saying your opinion doesn't mean fuck from shit from damn. If you were in court and were asked "Did you kill this man?" and you said "But he was doing something I disagree with" your ass would be tossed in jail immedeately. Your opinions do not stack up against facts - and the fact is this is a country of law.

Originally Posted by Igod82

I just think there should be a way for people to come here and work, and most of all i dont think they are scum for coming here.

I have no qualms with foreigners coming to our country to work. The problem is these people are ILLEGAL. Do you not understand that word? Illegal means illegal! You can't say "Well, I want them to work here" because they're illegal. You can't say "Well this is how I feel" because they're illegal. You can't say "I just think..." because they're illegal. You can't have any defense for Illegal Immigrants because they're illegal. You can't justify breaking the law in this respect.

Originally Posted by Igod82

I think you are scum for hating people just for coming across your sacred border.

And I think you're scum for trying to piss on my Irish heritage but you don't see me waving flags or marching in Dallas about it. Why the fuck do these people drive around with "Life Is Better In Puerto Viarda" bumper stickers on their cars? If life is so good there, GO THE FUCK BACK.

Your opinion does not mean shit on the internet and even less in the real world. I wonder how much time you really give yourself to think before you post because theres not a hint of an inkling of a thought of an idea of logic in anything you say.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Igod82

I dont not however believe that people here already should be made felons

But they are felons because they won't take the time to register.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by gukarma

So, in fact, illegals may be overpaying their taxes.

I think thats an unfair assumption because for all we know, when an employer files his taxes with someone's fake SS card - whos to say it even gets to the government properly? If its a fake identification, how can you prove that the government received ANY payment at all?

Originally Posted by Igod82

They are not Felons yet.

Asinine. The moment they jump our borders they're felons. End of story.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Igod82

Dick they cannot prsecute them for felony yet.

Thats like saying murdering someone doesn't make you guilty because the police haven't shown up yet.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Lord Styphon

At present, simply crossing the border illegally isn't a felony; that's why it only gets you deported, and not sent to prison and then deported.

I find this a strength because prisoners are treated to "three hots and cot" at the expense of the tax payer. I don't see why we should pamper illegal immigrants further by giving them the right to rape our tax dollars in a different way.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Yggdrasil

Except that hard labor maybe considered "cruel and unusual punishment" and would be banned by our Bill of Rights, even if they are illegal immigrants, and especially if it were to take place on US soil, now if they were shipped to Guantanamo it might be a different story.

I don't see picking litter off my highways or making license plates as either cruel or unusual. But I *would* see people bitching that it's "wrong" somehow, since those people weren't citizens.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Yggdrasil

Then sooner or later those people you mentioned would show up and make even more fuss about how horribly wrong all this is.

I'm still an advocate for "cruel and unusual punishment" because that may stop criminality from being so widespread. That doesn't mean I believe that jaywalkers should be flogged - but murderers? Rapists? Most certainly. And the more callous the crime, the more horrific the punishment.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Yggdrasil

So you're all for the Hammurabi's whole and eye for an eye idea? But not Draconian I assume.

Dubois had mused aloud, "I do not understand objections to 'cruel and unusual' punishment. While a judge should be benevolent in purpose, his awards should cause the criminal to suffer, else there is no punishment -- and pain is the basic mechanism built into us by millions of years of evolution which safeguards us by warning when something threatens our survival. Why should society refuse to use such a highly perfected survival mecahnism? However, that period was loaded with pre-scientific pseudo-psychological nonsense.

"As for 'unusual,' punishment must be unusual or it serves no purpose."

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Igod82

Which ones are the dumb ones?

The ones that come into our country illegeally.

: rimshot :

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by gukarma

It is anti-immigrant, period. Hard-core hillbilly Irish people are very anti-immigration of any sort.

I don't think there is such a thing as "hillbilly Irish". Hillbillies are deligated to the blue mountain ranges below the Madison-Dixie line. The Irish are known to have more or less completely stayed in the Northeast.

And people in Boston are fucking morons anyway. Sports Illustrated voted Red Sox fans as the second worst fandom in sports history.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by gukarma

I know it's a joke, but I will enlighten you nonetheless: a fried of mine, who happens to be an illegal immigrant turned down Harvard last year for an undergraduate program at Williams (read: Number 1 Liberal Arts College in America).

And I slept with a girl who graduated with a degree in Neurosciences from Yale. And guess what? She's a citizen. Whats your point, boy genius?

Besides, I can tell you straight out that some of the stupidest people I've ever met have the best education money can buy. This is why a college professor can have 5 degrees in macro-economics but still dresses like a fuckin flood victim.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Manis Tricuspis

The United States of America has no National Language.

I like how Pang says something and Sass calls him out on it and he doesn't respond to it because she's right. Real clever, there.

So, Pang, you'd have no qualms if we switched the National Anthem to Navajo for the sake of irony? I mean, barely anyone in the nation speaks that language anymore and the Native Americans were here first, so in a sense, why not take the language of the people we misplaced and use it to represent our current nation?

While I disagree with some of what Shonos said, there is something to chew on when you consider the current climate in this country. Yes, America has no offical language - but that does nothing to bolster anyone's want or need or presumed right to sing the national anthem in another language either. People who are reacting to the immigration situation by singing songs in Spanish are no different than 14 year olds going to Hot Topic and buying studed collars.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell

Well, my point is that we didn't really immigrate hear legally, either.

Since the Vikings/Pilgrims/Russian-Eskimos didn't come to an established nation, that statement has absolutely no worth.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Heres what I don't get.

We still allow people to come to our country and apply for citizenship. Green cards and visas are still given out, even in this post-9/11 media shitstorm.

So how can anyone claim that illegal immigration is "right", morally or otherwise? All they're doing is undermining the people that came here and applied and became citizens legally.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by DarkLink2135

I'm sorry, but you appear to have a VERY poor understanding of economics.

While you and I are on the same side of the fence on this issue - you make a really shitty arguement and make all of us who are against illegal immigrants look bad.

Can you make a point without quoting someone else or linking us to another site? Is there an original thought in your head? Quoting something from the internet doesn't make you right at all - its a hollow response, like a robot unable to think outside its programming.

Please - please - use your own words. And I don't mean just take a quote and change stuff around. Come up with something yourself.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell

Drugs and immigration on the other hand, are a COMPLETELY different story. Someone can, (and MANY people do) use drugs and not harm anyone else around them, and function adeptly within a society.

Putting aside the high school arguement that "the reason drugs are illegal is because the government can't regulate them!", you also have to realize you can't lump together drugs as, well, drugs. Someone who smokes pot isn't going to harm someone - but what about a meth or crack addict? Unless you want to justify robbery and murder as "functioning adeptly within society".

Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell

Much like MANY MANY people drink alcohol and do not cause harm to others and still function nominally within society. However, there are others who do not, this is where DUI/DWIs come into play, drug/alcohol related incidences, abuse and violence.

Alcohol is more or less based on the potency of the product. If you drink a lot, you'll get drunk. However, drugs have a ton of different chemical reactions on the human body. Pot doesn't affect you like PCP, Ketamine or coke.

Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell

Samething with immigration, yes there are a FEW among MILLIONS who do not contribute to the society, but why would someone struggle and travel thousands of miles from everything they know NOT to pursue opportunity? IT makes little sense.

That doesn't give them the right to break the law. They're coming into our country illegally - and they know it's illegal, yet they do it anyway.

Heres a good way to fix the immigration situation - if they want to come here illegally, round them up and enlist them for a 5 year term overseas. Educated them, train them and then turn them loose in Iraq for a tour or two. When they come back, they're citizens.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by DarkLink2135

Now there is something I can agree with. A sane view to fix the problem of illegal immigrants already in this country.

Oh god, if he's agree with me, I must be way off base.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by DarkLink2135

Look, if all you are going to do is be a complete dick and not take this seriously, then tell me now.

I take the subject seriously.

I don't think anyone who has a working synapse in their brain can take *you* seriously.

Jam it back in, in the dark.