Finishing up Firefly.

Originally Posted by Denicalis

Buffy and Angel had too many weak episodes, whereas Firefly was brilliant.

The law of diminishing returns can only apply to things that last. See, it's easy to say Frefly was greater than Item X, because Item X had a chance to suck. Firefly did not. People say the same thing about shows like Freaks And Geeks, Miracles, My So-Called Life, The Prisoner, Murder One, Wonderland, Freakazoid! and tons of other shows I can't think of. Shit, I bet you someone on the internet could convince people here that My Mother, The Car was a genius peice of television for it's "Hume-like qualities".

I have mixed feelings about Firefly myself. On one hand, it's cute and entertaining. I love the characters Jayne and Kaylee. There are a lot of elements that don't mesh, but thats bound to happen on a show that takes it's genre mix too literally (as opposed to the original Star Trek, which was literally pitched as Wagontrain To The Stars)

On the other hand, its fucking frustrating. The internet has attempted to tell me that this show was important and revolutionary when it's really nothing new except being a "horse opera in space" - quite literally. The things discussed in Firefly are no more important or relevant than those talked about in Battlestar Galactica - which is no more important or relevant than 90210, Dawson's Creek or Felicity. Abortion is no longer a tricky topic - but it is if it's in space!

Yes, Firefly has some cute dialouge but anyone who's seen Have Gun, Will Travel, The Rifleman or Maverick have seen these plots a couple times 40+ years ago.

I also find the character of River Tam to be insultingly awful. You could not ask for a worse thing in a show than unnessessary exposition - and she was a literal embodiment of exposition. Instead of making a subtle or complex reason for the Alliance to chase Mal and company - they had to give a badly reasoned McGuffin in the form of an attractive female. Come on, you expect me to swallow that? Poor insane hot girl!, the internet cries. And given how badly written she was set-up as - once you find out what she's carrying in her head in the movie, it's just complete bullshit.

I have problems with Serenity - mostly because of the changes between TV to film. The doctor goes from being this nice, meek guy to this angry jerk and 3 seasons worth of TV plot points are jammed down our throats in the span of 2 hours time. Sloppy, lazy bounds in logic in terms of writing (though I *loved* the villian in the movie) and some of the "shocking moments" (you know what I mean) were cheap - namely that of Book.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Denicalis

I like how you say this with absolutely no proof of any of it. "It's good and you suck! ROFL." Good for you, though.

I was a big fan of Buffy until Season 4. I later went back and bought seasons 4 and up and greatly enjoyed both 4 and 5 - but I may never forgive Joss for seasons 6 and 7 which were amongst the sloppiest peices of shit I've ever seen pass for a complete season. The moment the show switched to UPN, the writing dropped like a fucking rock.

Angel, though? I enjoyed Season 1. It was dark and lonely and had a little something something with demons and shit. But come Season 2 it was pretty bleh. Character development was bouncing off the walls like a superball factory, ideas were left by the wayside and by season 3, I lost all interest in the show.

Is Buffy one of the best shows of all time? No. There are courses in college that put this gigantic emphasis on the show because of its running continuity - but thats literally backlash to fanboy masturbation. We're just looking for validation in buying books and t-shirts and lunchboxes to have them connect to the larger whole. This is a major crippling factor with current sci-fi/fantasy shit - the need to lowball and placate it's audience with fucktard crapola.

Do I enjoy Buffy? Immensely - at it's best it was a good analogy for growing up and alienation and all those My So-Called Life things but with some ass-kicking thrown in. However, at it's worst, I'd find more entertainment in watching a Three's Company marathon in Russian.

The lesson learned here - and this goes with and against Denicalis here - is that the internet needs to shut the fuck up. For every decent human being who likes a show like Buffy or Firefly, theres another 100 who live in their parents basement listening to Joe Hisashi soundtracks, beating off to pictures of Kiera Knightly and thinking that they're some kind of oppressed media genius because they picked up on someone that everyone else saw.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I dont see why people continue to say Joss Whedon sucks when he's had three big cult TV shows and an Oscar nomination

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Originally Posted by Lord Jaroh

Me, I think he sucks because I didn't like the first 2 of his cult TV shows. To me, he sucks, overall except for his influence on Firefly. Sure, other people liked him. Sure he got an Oscar nomination (as if the Oscars or anything like that are any true indication of talent...), but I still think he sucks. Just my opinion. I wasn't a fan of Buffy, nor of Angel. I thought they were bland, boring garbage, appealing to hot and horny people everywhere, and nothing more. They were very uninteresting to me. Sure, there may have been moments where they were mildly interesting, if I had been bothered enough to watch all of the episodes, but I'm not going to waste my time watching something that I don't enjoy just to get a couple of moments that I might find interesting. I'd rather waste my time watching something or doing something that I actually enjoy.

You paint the world's most unimpressive, illogical arguement I have ever seen in my entire life. "I don't like something... because I don't like something!" is in no way, shape or form a way to convince other people you're right. Stupid, yes - but not right.

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Originally Posted by Drex

That having been said, saying someone sucks at what he does because you don't like the premise is kinda sad.

Hey, I don't like baroque music at all but I can appreciate that Handel was a master composer. He composed things that revolutionized how music is written to this very day. Someone who says otherwise is an idiot.

And while I won't compare Whedon to Handel - I will say that someone who validates how they're feeling because they don't like it is a fucking moron.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Drex

Yeah, if they're looking for validation.

If you make it a point to bring it to topic on the internet, the fact that you are voicing your opinion is looking for validation.

If you weren't, you'd keep it to yourself.

Originally Posted by Lord Jaroh

I wasn't trying to argue anything, simply stating an opinion.

I think you're a fucking queer little shit that should drive some nails into his forehead with a Black And Decker nailgun and then throw himself in front of a bus. But hey, thats just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Lord Jaroh

You should probably revise it.

Saying you are not queer is not unlike my saying I am asian. Neither are true just because we say so.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Lord Jaroh

That's alright, you can keep your "me-as-a-fag" fantasies. I know that I'm ridiculously good looking, but really, I'm honestly not going to come over to your house. I prefer the female gender. But if you feel the need to jack off to me, go ahead. I don't fault you for your decision.

For someone who demands to be known as heterosexual, you seem strangely expecting other men to jack off to you (or on you?).

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I know a lot of people who think shes gorgeous but I like girls with a little more meat on them. Needless to say, Kaylee looked a lot better in the series than she did in the movie.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Echo

Give me a sexy girl under duress in a sci-fi setting over another doctor show where there's an ethical dilemma concerning ________ any day of the week.

As much as I want to agree with you, I forced to disagree simply because I wouldn't want to trade one tired cliche for another tired cliche.

However if that girl were to be running around without a bra, a plunging v-necked top and be named Anna Paquin, I'd probably be shoving all you niggas aside to produce that show

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Yeah, and thank God you quoted his entire damned post because none of us are smart enough to follow linear thinking.

Jerk.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by RockgamerXIII

You're welcome. I knew it would help somebody!

How about you help me out and not spit my load out of your mouth for once?

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by RockgamerXIII

Do you even know what you're talking about half the time? What the hell is 'your load' supposed to be, you know, in an effort to help me not spit it out anymore?

This, ladies and gents, is surely the heights of humor.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by RockgamerXIII

You do realize that you have now done the same thing that started your bitching in the first place?

Somewhere in there - you need to add or change or subtract a word or something. When you read it, the whole sentence comes out really weird sounding.

But as for the "I did what I was bitching about" thing, I fail to see how. You also failed to show me how. You basicly came back to me and said "Look! You just did it!" without saying what I did.

Originally Posted by RockgamerXIII

Your attempts at being witty fail miserably. Of course, you're a one-trick pony, so I guess pretending to be witty with your insults is all you can do.

What the fuck are you talking about? Dane Cook wishes he was as funny or good looking or overly-hung as I am. Bitch, get back in your kitchen and make me some pasta.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by RockgamerXIII

If there really is something wrong with it, why don't you point it out? Otherwise, it just looks like you don't have a grasp of the English language.

I did point out that something was wrong. After reading it again, I think it's because you used too many words to say something so simply. Not that you were flowery in your wording or descriptions but you kinda tripped over your idea.

Originally Posted by RockgamerXIII

It really makes you look kinda of dumb if you can't figure it out.

Mmm. And it makes you look like some kind of fucking moron by not correcting me either. All you're saying is "No! You!" with words other than "No" or "You".

Originally Posted by RockgamerXIII

Now it just seems like you found the smallest thing that displeased you just so you could start a pointless argument and derail the thread. So much for "linear thinking".

You gonna fucking cry on me now? Did I hurt your delicate sensibilities? Do you need to hide behind your mother's skirt?

See, I wouldn't act this way if there weren't people like you. It's like you're Joe Chill and I'm Batman and Logic was my parents. You shot them, I'm going to act all CRAZY FUCKING VENGENCE on you, and you're defeated.

Originally Posted by RockgamerXIII

Why don't you just stop this, and try not being a troll in a thread for once?

As opposed to uploading tons of music to people I don't know and having a pretty interesting discussion on music theory? No, thank you. I enjoy sharpening my teeth - and it stands to show that all you're doing is throwing fuel into my fire - which not only perpetuates the arguement but completely validates me tearing you down like college date-rape.

Go and fuck yourself.

FELIPE NO

Quote:

Hearing the person I consider to be a master author, Orson Scott Card, praise this show as the BEST sci-fi series ever to hit television, and in many ways the first GOOD one, blew me away.

There is so much wrong with such a simple statement, I don't think I can completely respond to it.

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