The end of faith.

Originally Posted by FallDragon

blah blah blah This has to do with their sacred text, which greatly supports violence blah blah blah

sorry, but it does not promote random acts of violence... everything is justified. i'd love for you to try and prove otherwise (show me textual evidence please).

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by FallDragon

Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. But you may hate a thing although it is good for you, and love a thing although it is bad for you. God knows, but you know not. 2:216

surah 2, known as 'the cow'. this was revealed at a time when prophet muhammad (pbuh) was fighting in wars and oppression against the pagan arab tribes. these pagans were hell bent on wiping out islam because its concept of monotheism went against their idol worship. it also threatened their livelihoods because idol worship made them prosperous due to the pilgrimages and tourism of idol worshippers thoughout arabia who would visit each year (at the time mecca was the centre of idol worship in arabia). this verse was telling muslims that they must fight back when oppressed even though they were scared/outnumbered/etc. i don't see a problem with it.

Originally Posted by FallDragon

Let the believers not make friends with infidels in preference to the faithful - he that does this has nothing to hope for from God - except in self-defense

surah 3, known as 'the family of imran'. it doesn't say "don't take non-muslims as friends", but rather "don't take non-muslims as friends IN PREFERENCE to muslims". it also doesn't say not to associate with non-muslims at all, because if this were the case then muslims wouldn't be able to propogate the religion to non-muslims. again, i don't see a problem with it.

Originally Posted by FallDragon

Believers, do not make friends with any but your own people. They will spare no pains to corrupt you. They desire nothing but your ruin. Their hatred is evident from which they utter with their mouths, but greater is the hatred which their breasts conceal.

same surah as before, except this time it talks more specifically about the pagan arab tribes who were oppressing the muslims. many of these pagans wished for the muslims to turn away from the new religion and back into idol worship, so the surah serves as a warning to the muslims because it explains the true, hidden intentions of the pagans. again, i don't see a problem with it.

Originally Posted by FallDragon

Believers, if you yield to the infidels they will drag you back to unbelief and you will return headlong to perdition... We will put terror into the hearts of the unbelievers... The Fire shall be their home 3:149-51

same surah as before, and same points apply.

Originally Posted by FallDragon

Their hearts were hardened, and Satan made their deeds seem fair to them. And when they had clean forgotten Our admonition We granted them all that they desired; but just as they were rejoicing in what they were given, We suddenly smote them and they were plunged into utter despair. Thus were the evil-doers annihilated. 6:43-45

surah 6, known as 'cattle' or 'livestock'. let's look at this in a little more context:

6:42. Before thee We sent (apostles) to many nations, and We afflicted the nations with suffering and adversity, that they might learn humility.

6: 43. When the suffering reached them from us, why then did they not learn humility? On the contrary their hearts became hardened, and Satan made their (sinful) acts seem alluring to them.

6: 44. But when they forgot the warning they had received, We opened to them the gates of all (good) things, until, in the midst of their enjoyment of Our gifts, on a sudden, We called them to account, when lo! they were plunged in despair!

6: 45. Of the wrong-doers the last remnant was cut off. Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher of the worlds.

6: 46. Say: "Think ye, if Allah took away your hearing and your sight, and sealed up your hearts, who - a god other than Allah - could restore them to you?" See how We explain the signs by various (symbols); yet they turn aside.

6: 47. Say: "Think ye, if the punishment of Allah comes to you, whether suddenly or openly, will any be destroyed except those who do wrong?

6: 48. We send the apostles only to give good news and to warn: so those who believe and mend (their lives),- upon them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

6: 49. But those who reject our signs,- them shall punishment touch, for that they ceased not from transgressing.

God is simply saying that he sent prophets with clear signs to many communities throughout history, yet these communities ignored their warnings and persisted in their evil ways, and hence they were punished.

time and time again i see people like you quoting verses like those that are above. putting things into context and a little further reading would clear all of these misconceptions up. i bet you've never even read the Quran from cover to cover and that you took those verses off of some anti-arab or anti-islamic website. i ask that you stop spreading lies about islam and that you do some proper research into it before talking about it like you're some kind of expert. martin lings' book 'muhammad' is a biography of the prophet and a good place to start as it will give you the background information needed to properly understand the context of verses like those which you quoted above. one last thing:

Originally Posted by FallDragon

You do realize that none of our current Bible or Koran or anything, is based off original texts, right? They use copies of copies of copies, and who knows what the copiers wanted to put in there themselves.

i didn't have a lot of time to write this response so i'm going to re-use this article:

Thousands of the Companions of the Prophet learned the Qur'an directly from the Prophet (pbuh) just as millions of Muslims know it off by heart today. They memorized it and were known in Islamic history as huffaadh (the memorizers and preservers of the Qur'an). Moreover, a number of Companions wrote it down during the lifetime of the Prophet (peace be upon him), and it was compiled in its entirety immediately after his death.

The following generation of Muslims learned the Qur’an directly from the Companions. Thus the chain of teaching and learning through direct contact continued systematically, methodically, and meticulously until the present age.

Additionally, several of the Companions of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) were appointed as scribes to record the words of the revelation directly from the Prophet himself on parchment, leather, or whatever else was available. The most famous of these scribes was Zayd ibn Thabit, who also memorized the entire Qur’an, and he formed with the others a community of huffaadh that can be compared to academic societies of our present time.

We know the Qur’an was recorded in totality during the lifetime of the Prophet (pbuh) and the different surahs (chapters) personally arranged by him. Many copies of the text were used for study and teaching, even in Mecca before the Hijrah, the migration to Medina.

The entire Qur’an was written down during the lifetime of the Prophet Muhammad, and trusting the fact that many scholars knew it by heart, it was not collected in one volume. It was personally arranged by him, and the Muslims memorized it in the same order. The companion Uthman reported that whenever a new verse was revealed, the Prophet would immediately call a scribe to record it. He would instruct the person to put the specific verse or verses in a particular chapter.

Furthermore, every year during the month of Ramadan, the Prophet would recite the whole Qur’an from beginning to end in its present-day arrangement, and everyday people could hear it from his own lips in the mosque. Its sequence is no mystery. Many of the Companions not only memorized it completely, they also wrote it down and even added commentary (tafseer) on their own personal copies. When the Prophet passed away, the whole Qur’an was already written down, but it was not yet compiled in book form.

During the rule of the first Caliph Abu Bakr, there was a rebellion among some distant Arab tribes that resulted in a series of fierce battles. In one particular battle, a number Companions who had memorized the Qur’an were killed. The Companion Omar worried that the knowledge of the Qur’an was in danger, thus he convinced Abu Bakr that the Qur’an should be compiled into book form as a means of preserving it once and for all.

Zayd bin Thabit was entrusted with this important task. Zayd followed strict methods in his compilation and had dozens of other huffaadh recheck his work to ensure its accuracy. Abu Bakr, who had also committed the entire Qur’an to memory, approved of the final product. After Abu Bakr passed away, the copy was passed to the Caliph ‘Omar, and then Uthman.

However as the Muslim world expanded into lands where the people spoke Arabic as a second language, the new Muslims had a difficult time learning the correct pronunciation of the text. The Caliph Uthman consulted other Companions, and they agreed that official copies of the Qur’an should be inscribed using only the pronunciation of the Quraysh tribe, the Arabic dialect that the Prophet spoke.

Zayd bin Thabit was again given this assignment, and three other huffaadh were assigned to help him in the task. Together, the four scribes borrowed the original, complete copy of the Qur’an, duplicated it manually many times over, and then distributed them to all of the major Muslim cities within the empire. Two of these copies still exist today: one is in Istanbul and the other in Tashkent.

One must keep in mind that in traditional learning in the Arab world, transmission was based upon an oral tradition as well as a written one; the Arabs (and later all Muslims) excelled in accurately reporting scripture, poetry, aphorisms, etc. through the generations without change. Similarly, the chain of huffaadh was never broken, and thus the Qur'an today has reached us in two forms: the memorized version transmitted through the scholarly chain, and the written version based upon the Companions’ initial recording.

If the Qur’an had been changed, there would be huge discrepancies between these two today, as the Qur’an has reached isolated (and sometimes illiterate) communities through the memorized form of transmission without the written form to correct it. No such discrepancies have ever been recorded or reported. In other words, isolated village A in African Mali and isolated village B in Afghanistan will both produce contemporary huffaadh reciting the same words of the Qur’an, though they did not learn from a similar printing of the scripture nor has there ever been a concerted international effort to rectify would-be discrepancies.

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