Neon Genesis Evangelion

Ah Eva, my favorite show. The Rei in my user name comes from Rei Ayanami. I am scarily obsessed with her... I can't even imagine how much I've spent on Rei merchandise. Got everything from Rei window blinds to a Unit 00 snowboard.

I guess I can see why people wouldn't like Shinji, but personally I thought he was fine. I know I'd have been in much worse condition had I gone through all that at 14. Cut the kid a little slack.

Series/movie ending:

Spoiler:

I believe they're the same until the very last bit. At the very end of the TV series Shinji accepts Instrumentality. While in the movie he rejects it. up until then though, it's the same thing. In the TV series there's even some quick scenes from the movie. Like Misato dead against the wall, Ritsuko floating in the LCL lake, and Asuka in Unit 02 at the bottom of the lake.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

You make some good points, and this is why I love Eva. Can look at the same thing and have opposite views.

Spoiler:

The way I saw it Shinji was never given the choice at all. Rei went willingly along with Gendo, unlike in EoE where she turns on him. Therefore Shinji never even had the chance to reject contemplation. Therefore the default is it went through without a hitch. Also the ending of it just doesn't fit with Anno's attempt to tell us what the real world is. A place where we will always feel some pain due to us never truly knowing each other completely. Complemntation was the nullification of that. The way everyone was clapping, and Shinji being so happy, were direct examples of a "perfect" world. As you mentioned Shinji wanted, more than anything, to be praised and loved. It's why he piloted the Eva. He felt it made people love him. At the end everyone is there clapping for him, and he feels wanted. Shinji's perfect world. The complemented one.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I have that image or Rei on a giant pillow. Honestly, Rei isn't a sex object for me at all. I really like her character. Was talking to aku last night about her. She's such a great character to analyze, and I like her personality (yes she has one, you just have to dig for it).

And yes, Misato rocked.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I don't know. Sure he complained, but did he ever not do his duty? The only time he really wasn't going to was the fight against Zereul, and that, I thought, was very understandable considering what Gendo made him do against Unit 03. Also the beginning of EoE as well, but by then everyone was in mental breakdown mode. So that's no surprise. He always stepped up and did what he needed to do.

So yeah, Shinji didn't like risking his life in a living robot that caused severe mental stressfor a father who showed him no love. I said it before, I doubt anyone at 14 could have done half of what he did and even stayed remotely sane.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

In Eva's case the manga did not come before the anime. They actually came out around the same time. While the anime was handled by Hideaki Anno, the manga is done by Sadamoto, the character designer. It's kind of the same plot, but it goes in completely different directions with it.

I much prefer the anime, I didn't care for the manga myself.

I was speaking idiomatically.

You're right. The manga is far too Shinji-centric.

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Didn't I already go over this earlier?

ending:

The TV ending, and EoE are the same up to a certain point. In the TV ending Shinji accepts contemplation, and he rejects it in EoE. I think it's pretty obvious. Everyone congratulating him at the end of the series, is basically him reaching that perfect world. That's why it's an almost disturbingly happy ending. In EoE Shinji rejects that fake world in favor of the real world. A world where he'll feel pain once again.

So yes, up until the choice they are the same. Misato gets shot in both, Ritsuko dies in the pool of LCL, Asuka fights the MP Evas etc. But Shinji either chooses differently or he's never given the choice in the first place. To me it seems like Rei never rebelled against Gendo in the TV ending. She accepted her fate, thus denying Shinji the chance to choose differently.

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I'm curious about that jacket? Is it a jacket, like one you wear, or a jacket as in something to cover the DVDs? If it is a wearing jacket it better look good, and fit. Bandai annoyed me with their Eureka 7 and My-Hime shirts, which were only larges. I'm quite tall, so the things ended up looking like belly shirts...

Anyway, I'll end up buying it of course. Already own 4 full copies of the series. A fifth isn't going to hurt.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Unfortunately I don't remember the frame of mind I was in when I made that post, over a month ago. Don't know if I was trying to be funny, be an ass, or what. Most likely I was being an ass, I usually am. Though my opinion does tend to equal fact. I'm just good like that.

Anyway, looked back in the thread and couldn't find your thoughts on the endings. What are they? I'm curious as to what you think their relations are to each other (I really am. I love talking about Eva), and what evidence you have to back it up.

Spoiler:

I read that before awhile back. I still don't see it though. It comes across to me as Shinji being convinced he can live in the complemented world. I'll agree he brings up some good points, but the fact that the ending almost exactly mirrors Ideon's (which I'm also a huge fan of), and that even the RCB flat out states that the Shinji we see at the very end is complemented kind of kills it. Anno himself has stated that the ending to Eva is a tribute to Ideon, in which everyone is "complemented." Hell, even one of the title cards flat out says "we will examine Shinji being complemented." Also the fact that Rei willingly goes along with Gendo. She never gave Shinji that choice. Notice in EoE how before Gendo even comes to her she's smashed the glasses, and when he does go to her she has that look of almost hatred for the man.

It's funny because I came up with my theory before reading Jamieson's. I even disagree with his a bit, though I tend to agree with him on most of it.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

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Well quite. Naturally, Shinji was complemented. So was every other scrap of life on the planet (the known exceptions notwithstanding) including plants and even microbes. However, if I was to suggest that the process was reversed, this could easily allow for my interpretation of events to be the correct one. It doesn't make it concrete, but it certainly makes it possible.

Ah, that's where we differ lol. I don't think it can be reversed. Once it's done, it's done. It's also why I have a slightly darker view of the ending than most people. While a lot of people, including Jamieson, believe that everyone will come back if they have the will to, I don't think it's that easy.

Anyway, you're right on there being different theories. I apologize if I came off rudely. I'm sorry about that, I type before I think. Oh yeah, you mentioned Ideon. I've seen the raws of the ending. My wife speaks Japanese, and she helped me. Though due to that I obviously didn't get every detail. Excellent show. Makes me cry that it never got licensed.

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The audio commentaries for the movies praise his screaming. Spike really does well in fitting the role.

He did have some excellent screams, but no one can come close to Megumi Ogata. Her Shinji scream is bone chilling.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

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I thought i already went over this... >.< überRei was more along the lines of Seeles plan and not Gendo's.

They both would have ended up with Lilith forming. I'm pretty sure that was a part of both their plans. I can assume no Lilith, means no 3rd Impact whatsoever.

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They both have the same ending according to Anno.

I'd like to see where Anno says both endings are exactly the same.

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So the TV ending is what takes place inside überRei

It's actually what happens inside Shinji's head. Well the last episode is anyway.

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Except this is a very superficial way of looking at it. Watching it again, the TV ending seems to "fit" the theme of the series more, while the movie ending is only superficially more like eps 1-24 while not being philosophically the same.

Analyzing both I think it's easy to see the TV ending is a far more happier one. I don't see how it could be seen any other way. Though in my theory of what it means (he went through with complementation), it could be sad in a way. Also the ending to EoE was just as thought provoking as the ending to the TV series. The first half of EoE is just showing what happened during episode 25.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Great Antibob

What does "happy" and "sad" have to do with it? I just stated that the TV ending was thematically more true to the rest of the series. Unless you believe that "sad" is somehow thematically necessary.

You first compared it to Dickens sad and happy endings of Great Expectations, and then went on to talk about the TV series having a happy ending the fans didn't like. I just used your own phrasing.

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Inside überRei is no diffirent from being inside anybodys head because they have all undger gone instrumentality.

No, since people had different experiences during it. As shown in episodes 25 and 26. Especially when the title card for 26 says they will focus on what is going through Shinji's mind during Instrumentality.

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I WISH I COULD FIND THE DAMN ARRTICAL AGAIN!

I wish you could too since it would kill a lot of debate about the series.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?