Further Proof That Texans Are Some Trigger-Happy Crackers

Originally Posted by Gechmir

They were on his property and he decided to take matters in to his own hands. He acted well within the law to defend his own property however he sees fit. Regardless of what some may say, it isn't illegal =o But the victims probably were looool

According to the videos his use of force was not lawful. The law, correct me if I am wrong, allows use of deadly force to defense your own property, not your neighboors.

If the suspects attacked Horn then he would be well within the law to fire upon the two victims, but you'll have a hard time convincing me that two guys who robbed an unoccupied house would charge a crazed man with a shotgun.

In addition, I believe that if he had actually been threatened we would have heard more than "Boom, you're dead." The crime was reported, officers were en route, and there is no evidence that the victims had used, or had any intent to use, any type of force. His actions, whether or not lawful, were excessive and unnecessary. Whoever said the law was always right is a god damn fool, and whoever thinks this man was justified in his actions is one too.

Just one more reason for me to stay the hell out of Texas.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Zephyrin

Such a snooty little bitch, aren't you Capo?

Even if the guys had obeyed the 911 operator's commands, this guys lives in a well off neighborhood. Places like this are target-areas for burglaries. Not to mention, most criminals that get away with a crime tend to repeat the offense. I know that even from stunts I've pulled myself.

This guys house was in some form of risk if those men weren't caught. I've been robbed by niggers before, and my neighbors called it in. I sure wish they would've come out with a shotgun. But instead, all my belongings disappeared.

And you're a dumb little cunt, aren't you? Hey, look, I can call people names when I disagree with them too!

"Even if he had opeyed the 911 operators commands--" Allow me to finish that statement for you. The two victims would most likely have been apprehended, convicted, and sentenced for anything from Criminal Mischief to Robbery. You're ignoring the fact that before Mr. Horn decided to play hero he had provided the dispatcher with information regarding their build, clothing, and other details regarding their apperance.

As for the risk to the homeowner's house, well, as Sass has said, homeowner's insurance should have covered it. Not that I think there would be any reason as, again, I highly doubt the two victim's would have managed to escape.

I'm not sure which is more disgusting, your inability to support a controversial viewpoint, the obvious lack of respect for life, or your need to resort to name calling when confronted with someone who has enough sense to not kill someone over a bag of stuff.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Night Phoenix

Even if this guy is put on trial, we have this wonderful thing called -- Jury nullification.

If I met the guy in person, I'd buy him a drink at the local bar.

He clearly said "Move....you're dead"

Obviously, one of them moved towards him in a way that scared him and he fucked them boys off.

This man deserves a medal.

I'm tellin y'all boys -- Texas boys don't fuck around.

No, he said, "Boom, you're dead." There was no pause, there was no attempt to halt the victims whatsoever. Don't worry my illustrious Neo-Conservative Rhyme-Master, this is not a 2ed Amendment issue, and nobody is going to try to take away your gats.

Go crawl back underneath your hole in PP, your particular brand of ignorance isn't needed here.

How ya doing, buddy?

You know, you really are a dumb little cunt, Zeph.

You're arguing a Judge Dredd mentality. You consider a life worthless when someone can make an argument for it? Well, you're a dumbass, and I think any contribution to the gene pool you could make would be detrimental to society as a whole, so I consider your life worthless.

Quick, come onto my lawn so I can blow your fucking head off. Please, I won't even be breaking any law if I yell, "Move you're dead!" first, will I? Sounds silly, doesn't it?

Did I mention Mr. Horn disobeyed a (assuming this) armed police officer? Dispatchers are sworn in after all. Am I allowed to pop a cap in Mr. Horn's ass? No. I'm not, because even though he acted with unnecessary and unreasonable force, he doesn't deserve a needle. He sure as hell doesn't deserve a medal either, though.

You're a bitter motherfucker who's celebrating the death of two men because you were robbed, and to top it off you have more holes in your argument than the US/Mexican border. Get the fuck over it and get some compassion. You know, the stuff I have for your parents.

And as for you Avalokiteshvara... well, I like you. But that's doesn't mean you're right.

Originally Posted by Avalokiteshvara

Now, if a cop yells "Move and I'll shoot," and the perp moves, would you say the cop provoked him? Come on.

Provoked deadly force? No. There's a long explanation of what, exactly, officers can and can't do, but I'm not going to get into it unless someone tries to call bullshit on me.

Nobody is advocating laying down and allowing thugs to walk all over you, what we're saying (what everyone should be saying) is that the force used was unreasonable and unnecessary. He killed two men for robbing a neighboor. That's the bottom line. He did something terrible with the intention of stopping something bad. Notice the choice of words, terrible versus bad.

The issue here is not the law, the issue is the morality of his actions. And, contrary to everything you grim reaper advocates seem to be forgetting is that the ends do not justify the means.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Night Phoenix

The end always justifies the means, because at the end of the day, your goal is to achieve the end.

Well, the man with the child was obviously stealing in an attempt to better the position of his wife and child. Feed them, clothe them, etc. I hope you rhyme better than you argue.

How ya doing, buddy?

Actually, it's not titled the "Make My Day" law, it's just earned that nickname, and it's not exactly new. That particular statute became effective in Colorado in 1986, and it's pretty much just the Castle Doctrine on crack. It "provides homeowners with immunity from prosecution for force used against a person making an unlawful entry into the home."

And, again, it has absolutely nothing to do with this case.

I think it'd be cute to get someone who actually studies law to come in here and explain what the hell happened. (cough, bluemikey, cough)

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Zephyrin

Of course my argument is full of holes. I can't argue for the hell of it and always be right.

All in all, I think Horn's actions were wrong and illegal. But the deaths of the two men were not justified, but certainly not wrong. Fuck them.

Awfully nice of you to pull a 180 turnaround regarding the legality and justification of Mr. Horn's actions.

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Originally Posted by Grail

So wait a second, I'm a bit confused on this subject.

Since when was it all kosher to allow criminals to break in, steal, and get away with it? Granted, dying in the end is extreme no matter which way you cut it, but the simple fact remains that if no one would have done anything, they would have went on to do it again, and again. Petty theft isn't important in society anymore...fuck homicide isn't, it's all about DRUGS DRUGS DRUGS. At least where I live.

You're confused because you're not bothering to read. The police had been notified and were on their way. If you listened to the phone call and paid attention you'd see that barely a minute after Mr. Horn shot and killed the two victims he himself was laying face down on the ground, as ordered by the officers that had arrived on the scene.

There's nothing that suggests the two victims would have gotten away with robbery, nothing at all. It's just a straw man being held up by those who would have you believe the death of the two victims is somehow justifiable.

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Originally Posted by Grail

And there is nothing to suggest that the cops wouldn't have arrived on the scene thirty minutes after the hoodlums made out with all the belongings that they planned on taking.

And also LOL at the two robbers being victims...that's priceless. I can see it on the news, the widower would be like "HE WAS JUST TRYING TO STEAL A TV! WHY DID HE HAVE TO GET SHOT BECAUSE HE WAS PERFORMING A CRIME?!"

HEY DUMBASS, TRY READING

Originally Posted by One fucking post above.

You're confused because you're not bothering to read. The police had been notified and were on their way. If you listened to the phone call and paid attention you'd see that barely a minute after Mr. Horn shot and killed the two victims he himself was laying face down on the ground, as ordered by the officers that had arrived on the scene.

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The point stands, as either way he's blatantly disregarding the audio tapes and all other evidence regarding the actions of the police.

Additional Spam:
Which seems to be the common thread of those who support Mr. Horn. Let's ignore everything else except for the fact the two dead men were robbing a house. NOTHING ELSE TO SEE HERE GO ON ABOUT YOUR BUSINESS HURR HURR

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Grail

Not that it's any real connection,

This is like apologizing and then saying, "but." It negets everything else, completely. Just to humor you though, I'll go ahead and rip apart the rest of your post.

Quote:

but the next time someone breaks in your home to rob you, holds you at gunpoint while your wife is raped with a gun in her mouth...we'll make sure that we give him the congressional medal of honor, since you'd be all for defending his acts against you and your home *thumbs up*

Nobody is defending the actions taken by the robbers. Indeed, they deserved to be punished for their actions. However, they did not deserve to die for them. You're comparing a situation where my use of deadly force would not only be applicable, but reccomended, to a situation that no force whatsoever by Mr. Horn was warranted.Also, the Congressional Medal of Honor is only for military, wheras the Presidential Medal of Freedom is for civilians.

Quote:

While that situation is quite extreme, it still yeilds the same results. The neighbors in the house would still feel victimized, they still wouldn't feel safe. They'd spend thousands on a shitty home security system, dogs, guns or whatnot to feel safe again. Wow, cops caught two bastards breaking in and stealing shit...good job...now more and more people will get the idea to come stealing in that neighborhood, but will be a lot more careful about it.

What the fuck is that argument? You're really trying to argue that two people getting caught, tried, arrested and sentenced would somehow encourage people to commit the same crime in the neighboorhood? Not only that, if you are going to argue that, then how the fuck would people spending money on non-deadly forms of home defense be a bad thing? They'd get a deductable from their homeowner's insurance, peace of mind, and a leg up on any new robbery attempts. Go brush your teeth, your breath smells like bullshit.

Quote:

Though, now, knowing there is a gun totting maniac living nearby, chances are they won't fuck with em again. Neighborhood watch ftw!

"The ends justify the means." You're an idiot.

Additional Spam:

Originally Posted by Lacerta

* Considering it is Pasadena, the chances that they would have gotten away and continue to burglarize for a while is average at least, low at best. Quite a number of cases regarding theft and breaking & entering are reported but few rarely end with the thief being caught. Those sneaky thieves.

That may be the norm, but in this instance officers were on the scene within a minute of the shootings. I do not believe they would have allowed the suspects to escape given their proximity. Indeed, the evidence suggests just the opposite.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Grail

There are those that think that it was right to kill Saddam Husain for what he did, and his crimes against humanity, even though he was a dictator, and his word was law.

And then there are others who think that behind the mass murder, uptight prick, there was a big fluffy bunny that just needed a hug and not a noose around his neck.

Bottom line: If you are doing something you know is morally wrong, you better fully prepare for the worst if you are caught.

As long as you continue to compare rape, sexual extortion, genocide, mass murder, and "crimes against humanity" to a couple guys casing a house, you're not going to get anywhere. These men were no dictators. They were not mass murderers. They did not have any blood on their hands whatsoever. Give it up already.

Hell, you might as well compare me to Hitler, it's make about as much sense as the rest of your drivel.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Gumby

You've already condemned the man before he has even set foot in a court room. What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty? Obviously my point earlier was missed upon you. He has neither been charged with nor convicted of any crime yet but quite a few of you are so eager to label this man a murder when you have incomplete information on the situation.

By that logic he was still wrong in shooting on the men, because as they hadn't been proven guilty in a court of law they were innocent of robbing that house.

Pu-leez. If I shoot someone I'm guilty of the applicable crime, whether or not it's proven in a court of law is immaterial. It's like arguing OJ didn't kill his wife because 12 people were too thick to understand the evidence.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Maico

Frankly, I support Horn and don't condemn his actions.

Then you're an idiot who either has no understanding of the legal system in the United States, or just doesn't support it. Either way, you're an idiot.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

To quote an old history professor, "Son, everyone has opinions. Some opinions are wrong." But hey, I'm sorry; I didn't realize that a fundamental ignorance of the law which governs the land suddenly became trivial when you talked about it on the internet. My apologies for not putting in more content supporting my position when the previous four pages are filled with it.

As he didn't post any kind of reasoning behind his inane support of this killer (albeit one with a good heart!) I didn't feel compelled to respond with any of the information that had already been posted. But I'll bite. Toss me an infraction for trolling, Moderation, I earned it.

Ashame blatant stupidity and ignorance don't incure infractions, but then we'd be missing so many wonderful posters.

And it's spelled Frankie, dickwad.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Article

That report indicates that one of the men was clearly shot in the back.

Horn's attorney said the new information doesn't change his stance that Horn acted in self defense.

Somehow, even though the man was running away, he was putting Horn in immediate danger. Yeah. Right.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?