Use of the word "gay"

Originally Posted by sprouticus

I dunno, maybe I secretly hate gays like this girl seems to think, but I feel like in 2008, if someone says something is gay when they are CLEARLY not talking about homosexuals in a derogatory way, it shouldn't be an issue.

Of course it shouldn't be an issue. All you're doing is playing off of the deep-seated cultural prejudice that homosexuality is inherently wrong and backward by associating something displeasing to you with homosexuality. No grounds for offense there.

Yes, I realize that you're not intentionally speaking of homosexuals in a derogatory way. I would wager that a lot of people who use the word "gay" in that sense aren't. But does that make it better? Nope. It means that we've reached the point where we don't think about it. Homosexuality is bad, therefore "gay" equals "stupid" or "crappy." It's the same kind of thing you see in music theory, where, once upon a time, a melody that ended on a strong beat was said to have a "masculine" ending, and a melody that ended on a weak beat was said to have a "feminine" ending. Even after women's lib, some people still use these terms. Do they all necessarily believe, as the people who coined the terms did, that women are inherently weaker than men? No. But whether they intend to or not, they're perpetuating a symbol of an old prejudice, merely out of force of habit. I can't really think of a solid justification for doing that.

It's the same with using "gay" as a derogatory term. Whether you actually hate gays or not, you're bearing the standard of those who do. It'd be like decorating your walls with Nazi flags because you think they're pretty. I mean, you don't believe in what the symbol stands for, so what's the harm, right? Try telling that to your Jewish friends. It doesn't affect you because you haven't been exposed to the hate it represents. But to those who have, it is a powerful reminder of the their constant, painful war with a society that will not accept them for who they are. You are, in effect, doing the same thing as a guy I knew who, while playing Super Mario Brothers, called the Goombas "stupid niggers" every time he died.

Frankly, I find most people's insensitivity on this issue puzzling. It's like the people in the South who just can't understand why the blacks don't want them flying the Confederate flag. It's just good ol' stars 'n' bars, right? Ugh, I could go on.

Suffice it to say, yes, it is very crass of you to use the word in that manner, especially since you seem to know better. You should stop.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Denicalis

Getting that worked up about words, and not intent, is so ass backwards it's pathetic. Intent and meanings are insulting, not language. If someone says something is gay, and they obviously mean nothing by it, and you turn it into an issue, you know who the asshole is? You. If someone who is against black people voting calls a black man a 'nigger' it's not insulting because he said nigger. It's insulting because he meant nigger as a black person of lesser standing. That's the issue. Intent and meaning.

Let me clarify. I'm not worked up. However...

Originally Posted by sprouticus

Do you think that saying something is "gay" is grounds for scrutiny and harassment? I recently said that something was gay within earshot of this uptight lesbian, and she got all pissed at me saying "nice Dave, real nice."

...that girl certainly was. To me, Sprouticus's argument seemed to be, "I meant nothing by it; therefore she shouldn't have been offended." Well, great, that works for me because I'm not gay. But it obviously didn't work for this girl because she is gay. And it offended her. I don't hate black people, but try telling that to my black friends if I use the word "nigger" jokingly. They don't like it. And they're entitled. The word "nigger" is a symbol of a level of hate that I have never experienced, but that they struggle with constantly.

It's the same with homosexuals. Whether your intentions are pure or not, using the word "gay" in that context is a symbol of the hate they struggle with, and symbolism is a powerful, powerful thing. Whether they "should" or "should not" be offended isn't the point. They are offended, and for a very understandable reason. That's why I said I find people's insensitivity on this issue puzzling. Insensitivity, i.e. not being sensitive enough to another person's point of view to understand why she reacted the way she did.

In summary: Sprouticus and Denicalis, your arguments make sense, and I'd tend to agree with you, but we're not the ones who get to decide.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Josiah

<manic backpedaling> Blah blah blah people who CHOOSE to be homosexual blah blah but I don't really hate queers. </manic backpedaling>

Congratulations! You have just discovered that you are a bigot!

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.