Religion: What it means to you

Originally Posted by Cain

Well, from an anthropological point of view, that is the entire point of religious systems. They give conformity, uniformity, and belongingness. They give a common deity of which multiple people can band together on and, ultimately, become a stronger culture.

If by anthropological you mean anthropology circa 1930's when we were studying the 'noble savage.' Actually, religion's meaning changes based on what culture you're looking at. But, nice swing and a miss there.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Cain

You are right. The meaning does, indeed, change. That is not what I meant, however. The meanings do change, but the affect stays the same. Universally, belief of any sort will foster an inclusive environment.

I'll again say, just to be fair, these things are also found ELSEWHERE. A common language also has these affects. Marriage does as well.

Except that this isn't what religion does on a universal level. There are areas of world, most markedly the Columbian jungle and the People of the Center, for whom religion is a terrifying and anomie causing aspect of life. Western religion does what you say it does. Not all religion. Don't bring anthropology into it when you aren't up on your theory.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

So, you have a grasp on what it is to have the mindset of a god, do you? Look, I'm anti-religion, as big a skeptic as they come (lol deni's fat), but that's just fucking asinine.

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For someone who was a christian for 18 years, you should have picked up on the fact that God is always vengeful. New Testament has Jesus as a buffer between him and humanity, remember?

Also, really NOT remotely true about all religions being the same. Allah, God, Yaweh... sure, they're pretty much the same, as they're all based on the judeo-christian roots, but to clame that Amon-Ra and Zeus are in the same boat? Come on. How about Shiva? Odin? They don't really fit your little mold. I get it, you don't like Christianity. Stick to the one religion though, stop acting like you know some greater truth on a universal scale. You're being an ethnocentric prick, here.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell

Uhhh... since when were Amon-Ra, Zeus, Shiva and Odin part of a monotheistic belief system?

Amon-Ra was the name given to the sun god after the pantheons were destroyed. He stood as a lone god for decades.

As for the others, He didn't seem to be talking monotheistic, he seemed to be making blanket statements.

Additional Spam:

Originally Posted by RainMan

Let me ask you this...what is your take on God?

My take on God? He doesn't exist. At least not in the sense people want him to. I think God as creator is a cop out. It's a new take on an old concept: Can't explain it, so it must be divine. Why did the volcano erupt? Why, it was an angry volcano god. Give him a virgin. Now the question is how do you get something from nothing? Don't know, must be a massive eternal--which is hilarious, given how IDers talk about how matter can't come from nothing, but they buy the concept of an entity existing at all points without end--entity controlling everything.

The judeo-christian god has no more sway for me than does, say, the germanic pantheon, or the Loa of Africa. When asked for my religious beliefs, I just say skeptic. People like Rat try so hard to make a point, but they always come back to the magic man in the sky, and claim it MUST be supernatural because we haven't been able to explain it yet. The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence argument. Just because we haven't found Jesus' body means he MUST have risen from the dead. Because we can't explain what came before the Big Bang, it MUST be god. As if every theory must be all-encompassing to be valid. Pah. What's my view on god? No different than my view on, say, eco-friendly movements. A great idea, too bad so many retarded assholes have to blindly believe it, though.

A belief resists change. Thus why there are people who picket dead children's funerals and scream AIDS CURES FAGS at the grieving parents under the guise of good christian morals. God has caused too many fucking problems. That's what I think of god.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell

Man, I type all that up and no response. No, "Hey, thanks man, it was nice that you took the time to answer my burning questions," or "Ah, yeah okay, I understand that, but what about... [more questions]?"

I thought that's what discussion was about, man.

Hey, thanks Duo, it was nice that you took the time to answer that guy's burning questions.

Or

Ah, yeah, okay, he understands that, but what about how he was totally misinformed and insinuating that morality comes from dogmatic law and dogmatic law only, basically stating that prior to the (possible) existence of Jesus Christ, everyone was amoral and kind of a jerk, because they weren't really christians in the modern sense? How about that, Duo Maxwell?

The art of diplomacy, by Deni Kissinger.

How ya doing, buddy?

Did you just compare yourself to the prophet archetype? Sweet Evil Monkey Descended Christ, son. That is so fucking arrogant. Also, the Matrix was filled with philosophical references, chief. It just so happens a lot of early work they did was focused on religion.

That's like saying that Tolkien was writing religion because some people find allegory in it. Shut up.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Smelnick

I feel sorry for atheists, because without belief in something beyond themselves, what do they really live for? What can you strive to attain?

Understanding and self-realization, you arrogant prick. Betterment through oneself, not a fantasy man who forgives my mistakes if I ask nicely. What do we have to live for? Where the fuck do you get off? Only a belief in god can provide meaning? How hollow and empty is your life that this is true?

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Atheism is a belief structure. I wouldn't call it a religion, but its certainly a belief structure on par with religions with its ability to produce radical idiots who make the moderates look bad.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by LZ

I'm pretty sure he meant "moderate" in a "won't shove their beliefs onto others like an asshole" kind of way.

Bingo. But thanks for proving a point for me, infarcer.

How ya doing, buddy?

Actually, what I was saying was that one form of universal thought, extremism, was as bad as another. I'm a massive skeptic, and I believe there is currently much more evidence of no god, than of the existence of a god, and as such, I fall towards atheism. However, to argue that your way is right and everyone else is wrong is just bloody stupid, not to mention exactly what I dislike about religion.

The seperation of church and state is vital. Government and school have no place interfering in people's beliefs, and the church's politics have no place in secular institutions. But to say one or the other is the root of all evil is bloody idiotic. Moderate atheism exists, junior. And it isn't agnosticism, it just isn't millitant and close-minded.

P.S.

I just failed two students for using wiki as a main source in their term papers in a university level religious studies course. Get a real source so you can bring an argument to the table.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Any less ridiculous than the idea of matter forming from nothing prior to the big bang? Physics/science can't explain the beginning any better than anyone else. For all I know, they're all wrong. I think belief in god is stupid, but an absolute belief in -anything- is stupid. You're as bad as they are.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Slick, there is endless evidence to say there was a big bang, but every theory about where the matter came from is still hotly contested. You should know that.

I was speaking idiomatically.

More evidence, yes. Which is why I believe in it. But not absolute evidence. I can't say there is no guiding hand, I can just say I doubt the evidence. Until there is absolute evidence to either direction, to absolutely believe in either direction is ignorant and extremist.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

And I say the same thing about the spaghetti monster and belief in god. Fucking ridiculous, but I can`t prove them wrong.

And creationists say that their theory is more valid than science based on scientific evidence, which is stupid. I`m saying you`re defending your side as violently and with devotion that mimics theirs. Science demands a certain flexibility, or else we wind up just as close minded and simple as they are.

FELIPE NO

I only get mad when they try to push it into politics, secular school and science.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Smel. The Christmas tree isn't christian, it's pagan. So I agree. Stupid of them to chase it out as a christian symbol. Also, the first laws waaaaaay predate the ten commandments, mate.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

ALL other religons say you have to "work" your way into heaven and yes, In times past this docterine has crept into the Christian community but it is not supported by the bible.(Ephesians 2:8-9)

Except for those that don't believe in an afterlife, such as Shinto. Stop overstating things, you zealot.

Quote:

The Christian message says merely "believe that Jesus saves you" (Acts 4:8-12 & Romans 10:9)

Ah, no sir, that is hardly the catholic message. Not even the protestant message. Which branch of Christianity would you be speaking for, then? Belief in Jesus is not enough. Belief and atonement for sins, are. Which takes ritual. Which is working your way into heaven. Stop overstating things, you zealot.

Quote:

The atheist wager also does not hold water because it has no basis for assuming authority in spiritual matters. Not believing doesn't affect the two basic spiritual principals that have been understood by humanity since the dawn of civilization.

Since the dawn of civilization? Which civilization would that be? Care to back this up with some historical proof? Most early peoples didn't have a system of religion or belief, because they didn't have the sort of thought process necessary for it. Or are you going to tell me all about how cave drawings signify animism so I can bitch slap that out of your mouth, too? Stop overstating things, you zealot.

Also, do you know what else we believed at the height of civilization? That it was a good idea to stone women who were raped. We also understood that murdering your neighbour was a good idea if it got you his cattle and his women. Should we hold to those archaic precepts, too? Two basic spiritual principles. Please. Stop talking about things you clearly have no knowledge of, you uneducated prat.

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The atheist must come to the realization that no matter what they think there is a universe with laws we must conform to.

They do this. It's called science. Stop overstating things, you zealot.

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Because the bible tells me so. (Deuteronomy 6:5, Jeremiah 7:23, Hosea 6:6, John 14:15) God loves me enough to give me the choice to love him. Without free will Heaven & Hell wouldnt need to exist.

If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. Leviticus 20;9.

If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death. Leviticus 20:13

If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. Deuteronomy 22:20-21

These are all in the bible, too. Are these canon? Do these shape your beliefs? Or are these just sort of... religious fanfiction?

And before you give me the "Jesus changed that" concept:

God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. -Numbers 23:19


You're the worst sort of christian, Lordsword. You cheapen your religion with your zealotry, you hurt intelligent, logical christians with your bullshit, and you insult intelligent people by attempting to argue your points in such a haphazard, hackneyed fashion. You've heard the lady doth protest too much? You seem to scream your faith in every post you make. Who are you trying to convince, us or yourself?

Give it up, already.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Token

Even if what he says starts to sound a really rediculous, and even though I dont agree with a thing he says, he's really smart.

If what he says starts to sound really ridiculous, then he's NOT especially intelligent, now is he? Because if what he said sounded credible and defensible, then we wouldn't have to lynch him in every thread he contributes to.

What he is, however, is focused. He has a singular world view that is incredibly entrenched, and unmovable. That's not intelligent, that's stubborn. My dog can be stubborn, and he may even be smart for a dog, but he still can't figure out that the dog on TV isn't real, but man o man, can he ever bark that fucker down every time he sees him.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

This is the second time I've seen you take the stance that only christianity provides a moral basis for human action. Do you really think that without your religion, which is young compared to many, the world would fall into anarchy and cruelty?

This is why I say you're uneducated. And yes, do explain to me how the earliest civilizations all practiced this universal concept, and I will slap you with 100 academics who will tell you no universal exists, and that you're an amateur if you think it does. Not smart.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by LordsSword

Biblical correction is attached to following biblical teaching. Until you can obey the book dont pretend to teach from it.

If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. Leviticus 20;9.

If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death. Leviticus 20:13

If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. Deuteronomy 22:20-21

God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. -Numbers 23:19



Knowledge, not belief, is the basis of understanding, son. Until you learn the difference, you seriously need to shut the fuck up and quit acting like you get to make arbitrary rules just because you're losing the argument.

You quote scripture to prove your point, we quote scripture to point out holes in the book you take as law. We quote from books we find life changing and important. We don't need your permission to prove you wrong.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by LordsSword

My God is into freedom & equality for everybody. My religion means freedom for all people no matter what their position.

Ahahahahahaha.

How can you ever write that and keep a straight face? Your God is the basis for the Catholic religion, which was fine with Nazi Germany and the slave trade. Your god puts women behind men in terms of rights. Your god says you can't have sex with multiple people. You can't have sex before marriage. You can't eat this, you can't eat that, you can't work on Sundays, you can't worship other gods. So I guess what you mean is he's into freedom so long as it's freedom to follow HIS rules, and equality so long as you're not a woman, wherein you can be stoned for doing anything other than serving your husband faithfully. But hey, way to be so fucking pigheaded as to not be able to read the book you preach.

Freedom and equality? Then explain Sodom, you putz.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?