Is there anything wrong with having a faith?

I think the question is better phrased "is there something damaging to a society in a mass delusion." Obviously faith for you hasn't damaged you. It's gotten you through some hard times. I don't think any rational human being would sit here and condemn a person of faith for their belief on a personal level. If you keep your faith to yourself and use it in a rational way, you don't harm anyone.

However, belief, delusion as it were, on a large scale is at its best disruptive and at its worst destructive. No one worries about the belief of one man, but when millions start believing in a faith that leads to the massive spread of AIDS in Africa (no condoms for catholics) there can be an issue. When the huge majority of anti-gay advocates do so on religious grounds, there's a problem. Faith retards progress. It is scared of change and horrified of answers to the questions it once was the sole answer to.

Angel, you're a smart man. You've heard the intellects on this, I'm sure. The issue is that A) you're dealing with it on a personal level and B) you're dealing with a hypocrite when you discuss it. A pagan has no legs to stand on when attacking religions. One crazy illogical belief is as crazy as any other. Religion is religion. Some just have more history. What you really need to ask yourself is whether or not you feel religion has a place in the modern world. I don't think it does. I think it's a haven for hatred and backward thinking individuals yearning for a world that never really existed.

It's not so much a matter of is there anything wrong with it, as much is there anything right with it? You stated it's a crutch for you in your life. But if you know it's false, and wrong, and often destructive, is it really a crutch? Or is it just the framework you've built your own self-motivation within? You got past issues in your life by going to religion, even though you state you see the holes within it. I don't think you needed the religion. I think you just needed a way to put perspective on what you're dealing with. And that's fine, but the upsides clearly don't balance out.

Is religion the root of all evil? No, but it's certainly a wonderful place for some of the most ignorant of us to hide and flourish. I'm with Maher on this one. I just don't see what it gives us except a way to lie to ourselves.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I have to, respectfully, disagree with you about atheism being a religion, Shorty. A lifestyle, sure, but not a religion. By the strictest dictionary definition, sure, as it is a group of people who think in a certain way, have agreed on something they believe in and generally go about their business. By that definition Jedi is a religion, but I don't think anyone really buys into that. But what atheism lacks is the ritual devotion to a set of beliefs.

Let's take a moment and say I agree with you on this. The god of atheism, then, would be science. The difference between my god, and say, the christian god, would be that their god claims a knowledge of all things, and wants you to adhere to a moral code. whereas mine is fluid, changes as proof is offered and generally doesn't have a strict set of moral codes at all.

However, science uses doubt as a prerequisite for belief. The whole point of atheism is that when new information that can be quantified is brought to light, perspective shifts. There is no set rules of belief that must be true. Every ounce of atheism is fluid, so long as there is proof. I think, at the core, most atheists are just agnostics who feel the burden of proof concerning god/spirits/elves/everything Conan Doyle believes in/Whatever the fuck bullshit pagans hypocritically buy into has pretty much been fulfilled. Actual religions use doubt as an obstacle. Sure, it's okay to have doubts. So long as you don't act on them. If catholics went around trying to test every point of God the way scientists do science, just to punch holes in it, they would not be popular at the church picnic.

If you want to place every group who has a shared set of beliefs together under the umbrella of 'religion', we have to buy into furries and other things Miles likes as a religion. I'm not prepared to make that leap.

Short form: It lacks the rigid belief structure to be a religion.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

His wife isn't an atheist, she's a pagan.

Which makes her position laughable.

And Dull, as much as I think that Hitchens and Dawkins go too far, I certainly prescribe to the James Randi/Penn & Teller form of atheism that says you have the right to be religious if you want, but don't expect me to act like it isn't intellectually laughable to do so. It's lazy, it's a crutch, and it has no place in the running of a country. Whatsoever. I have a lot of religious friends, but I still roll my eyes if they talk about hearing god speak to them, or about a small miracle in their life. There comes a time when you have to draw a line in the sand and say on this side of the land, we think hearing voices in your head and letting that dictate your actions is fucking insane.

In short, the fact a huge number of people in North America vote along religious dogma rather than issues is horrific.

P.S.

Shorty, does that mean that people who rally against flat earthers and young earthers are a cult, simply because they have overwhelming empirical evidence?

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Okay, but if you follow the bible literally of course you reject simple science and evolution. You have to. Rejecting the supernatural aspects of religion doesn't make you a "rational" religious person, it makes you somewhat worse.

If a person has the logic to know that this amount of the book is clearly bullshit, turning around and saying "but I still believe" makes them worse than the people who are just too ignorant to know any better. It's lazy, and it's pointless. If you don't buy the supernatural rubbish inherent to all religions, your only point for faith has to be a certain moral conduct, and you don't need religion or a faith for that. All you need is a personal code of conduct, and you don't need to believe in ancient spirits, an invisible sky dad, or alien souls in volcanoes to be a decent human being. The only other possible reason is hedging your bets, and saying "well if I die, I'd rather believe and be wrong than not believe and be wrong." And that's not really faith. That's fear.

If a person is smart enough to know the book is full of lies and falsehoods, a person is smart enough to know that maybe the core part is fake, too. No one needs a religion to tell them to be a decent person. What's the Dogma comment? I'd rather have an idea than a belief? Ideas can change, beliefs are fixed. Faith elevates concepts beyond the point of rational debate and turns them into a matter of life and death. That's not constructive.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by DieSeLFueLeD

I'm of the belief people can be spiritual but religion and its dogma are just unnecessary. Especially when proponents of many major religions spout hateful shit and keep us from progression. Bigoted Christians (especially Catholics) are at the top of my shit list. I will never understand how followers of a hippie who preached love for everyone could be so damned regressive.

You know who is "spiritual but not religious"? Guys in University named Trent. And Trent is a fucking douchebag.

I was speaking idiomatically.