[PS2] Final Fantasy 12 - Unappreciated or underwear

Originally Posted by Tafer

I loved several aspects of this game (including story)... maybe it has too many innovations for the hardcore RPG gamer.

Anyways, amazing game... way too long for my taste and without a Guide some stuff is just impossible to figure it out, but that's irrelevant.

Innovations? What innovations?

FF XII had a ton of promise and then it was absolutely scrapped by a story that went nowhere and an ending that was horridly disappointing.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Tafer

Hmm... I dont know, maybe the gambit system?... a story not entirely based on the characters (usually emo) but in a bigger stuff (war, city relation, etc)?

Yeah. Setting AI for your character is novel and has never been done before. Not ever in MMORPGs, or in Tales Games, or even in Secret of Mana when you could set your characters from attack to healing on a grid.

And a story not entirely based on characters? FF Tactics? Suikoden? Suikoden II? Romance of the Three Kingdoms? Dude, these aren't innovations.

Quote:

Granted, a story not entirely based around the characters lacks some appeal, however, some people find it far more interesting than the usual cliché character development.

Yeah, wow, I wouldn't know anything about story development at all. No sir. Not like I make a living working on story development. FF XII just lacked it. It ended very poorly, and the story went nowhere for a huge amount of time. Sorry that offends you so.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Tafer

Weird stuff, for some reason I disagree with your point of view...

Do I have to explain the concept of the narrative structure to you? Really?

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Tafer

Researching a little bit about the world reception of the game I found it has been praised by everyone about its story and pretty much everything... so I was going to shove it in your face... until I found this: Interview : Akitoshi Kawazu (FF XII) ... not much to say. (Well, they archived a beautiful world)

They achieved a GORGEOUS world. I -love- Ivalice. I always have. I like that the games set in Ivalice usually have a fairly political bend to them. I love the concepts behind them, I like what they tried to do with XII, I Just think they came up sort.

Also:

Tu parle francais, monsieur Tafer?

Most amazing jew boots

I actually agree with both Kishin and Tafer.

Here, Tafer, let me better explain my position and it might make more sense. I got into the game early. Balthier was straight up old school Han Solo or Indiana Jones. I love characters like that. Vaan is useless, but the teen hero always is (god forbid we ever get to play a grown up). The story starts, and there's some pump to it. You steal some stuff, it gets taken from you, a castle blows up. Hey, look at this pony go. And then there are all these bits where the story just -stalls-. It doesn't keep the narrative pace going, the sidequests seem to take you out of the action, rather than enhancing it, and the clip of the story is always interrupted by these sort of pointless filler bits. Like something just wasn't there to really bump it along.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by RacinReaver

For someone that doesn't care about the plot in videogames anymore (as evidenced by my undying love for Grandia Xtreme), how's the actual gameplay in FFXII? Is it a game that's just fun to sit down and play for a few hours a week?

If by a few hours you mean level grinding with AI that basically means you don't even have to touch a button. So if you want to watch your people run around a desert and then run away and hit something, repeat ad nauseum, then sure.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Except that it still doesn't fix the plot.

FELIPE NO

Because FFT was a full, robust story, whereas FF XII feels like a little kid running through a big world and some stuff happens, but you can't ever really find out anything about it oh and here's a pretty CG cut scene and Balthier is funny.

That's why.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Rotorblade

They could have done so much worse.

Well I'm not sitting here saying it's FF VIII levels of atrocious story and character development. Not even close. What I'm saying is, yes, it's good but given the amazing world they're in, it could have been so much more.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Django!

I never even saw Balthier as a "leading man". The entire game was largely about each individual, and was one of the first Final Fantasy's without a clear idea of, "this is who we should focus on". It's harder to relate to someone when everyone is given screen time.

*waves around Final Fantasy VI*

There's nowhere I can't reach.

FF VI most decidedly does not have a main character. Terra, if you want to argue her as the main character, becomes largely secondary in the latter half of the game. You can actually beat it without her. And Celes, who is the first character you play as in the latter half is hardly the lead character of the beginning. Locke has as much play time as any of them, and yet, he's not the main character.

Get real, sir.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

If Yuna is a main character, then so is Balthier. And that is Tidus' story, by the by. They spell that out for you. You know, repeatedly. And VI, sir, has a less single character involved story than XII does. XII is seen from a single person's perspective, unlike VI. No one is saying Terra isn't important to the story, I'm saying she's not the main character. And she's not. Because it's a cast based game. And she doesn't have any more significance to the second half of the game than any of the other characters not named GoGo or Umaro. You keep arguing your lost point, though. You're doing fine.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Yes, there are cutaway cinematic scenes, but mind explaining to me the large chunks in XII where we play as someone other than Vaan? Because I must have missed that. You know, unlike in VI, where for huge chunks of the story, Terra isn't even in your party.

And no, it wouldn't. The first half you can call the Terra act, definitely. The second half though, you start as Celes, and then it very quickly becomes the everyone-else act. She's not a forced lead character for the secondary story beyond getting a few early recruits, then she promptly fades away into a secondary character.

I was speaking idiomatically.

And my point has never been that XII has a hard, fixed main character. My point was that it's not the first game to have a cast/story based rather than the stationary lead character, a la FF VII. XII is much more fluid than a lot of games, but it's hardly an innovator of it. I said VI is less driven by a single character than XII is. And I hold that this is true. I never said it was a rigid main character. But keep arguing apples and oranges, Watts junior. It's working for you.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

My god, the story unfolds with a character as a catalyst. Clearly, they must be the protagonist. Nevermind the heaps and heaps of secondary characters who have the exact same effect. I mean, it's not like we spend a large portion of the game unlocking Locke's involvement, or Celes. Clearly XII has invented this literary trope and we must all bow to the genius that was XII. Fuck off. You're trying to turn this into "FF VI is A" argument when it's a long held concept that it is a cast based story, rather than having a single protagonist. Your argument that XII is this vaulting cast based game that nothing else has ever tried before is stupid. You want to like this piece of shit? Go for it. But don't act like it walks on water and created everything cool when it's pretty packaging of things we've seen time and time again.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Rotorblade

Jesus Christ, I can't tell who you're talking to, man.

The other guy.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Rotorblade

Appreciate it. Guess I'll watch you all work this out.

Fireworks are done. The one thing I've noticed about django from his posting is that he's not worth the effort of logic. It's sort of like trying to explain complex social theory to a dog.

Jam it back in, in the dark.