[PC] World of Warcraft

Originally Posted by Zio

A priest can be pure damage or pure healing. And it made sense for a PRIEST or a WARLOCK to get something like vampiric touch. Not a god damn hippie/nature/lore/ritualistic person like a shammy.

A priest, even shadow specced, can easily place around the middle of the healing meters, maybe top 5, and can also provide decent damage.

Also, let me get this straight. Are you saying that because of the name of the talent, it shouldn't be a shammy talent?

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Second, you have mana regen, all be it that your mana tide totem needs to be a ability, not a talent point. But you got two mana type totems. You can hybrid by this. DPS as ele/enchancement and back off and heal.

Oh, joy, the mana spring totem that takes half its duration to provide any benefit to the shaman at all, on top of interrupting our spirit regen. =\

Also, as it is, Elemental shaman have no reason to DPS over healing, period. We can't DPS as good as mages or 'locks, because then our healing abilities would marginalize them completely. Which leaves party buffs. Funnily enough, the only party buff the Elemental shaman has is a passive buff that doesn't require the shaman to be casting and actualy playing as an Elemental shaman.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Zio

Now JUST THE NAME but what it DOES.

Sooo... in other words, you're saying that Elemental shamans shouldn't a) get a viable reason to DPS on raids, something they currently lack, and b) a mana regen capability beyond either a totem that

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Hey it's still mana regeneration.

...Mana spring, with talents, costs 75 mana at the maximum rank to cast, restoring 10 mana every 2 seconds for one minute, or 300 mana. That means, over the course of one totem's duration, it returns a net gain of 275 mana- barely enough for one lightning bolt cast, untalented. However, it also interrupts mana regen. Shamans get no in-combat spirit regen, and only gain benefit from mp5.

Now, let's factor in mana regen. Shamans have a regeneration rate of x/5 +17. Unbuffed, a level 60 Troll shaman has 101 spirit. Assuming 8/8 Earthfury, the shaman has 213 spirit, giving him a mana regen rate of 212/5 +17, or 59 mana every two seconds (rounded down). Assuming that the shaman cast a totem immediately after a tick for the minimum penalty, the true cost of a Mana Spring Totem is now 75 + (59*2), or 193 mana. Assuming that for the entire duration of the totem, the shaman does notcast a single spell, the total mana gained by Mana Spring totem, plus spirit regen, is 69*30 - (59*2), or 1652 mana for one totem.

However, this figure is in a vacuum, where the shaman's sole duty is to drop a Mana Spring totem every minute. For a moment, let's assume that the shaman is healing. That means he is casting a spell every... oh, let's give them 10 seconds, to be generous. With this, let's assume for a moment that the shaman can regain one tick of mana before needing to cast another heal. Under these conditions, they interrupt their mana regen 10 times. So, the number of ticks they receive, under these conditions, are 12. Thus, the total mana gained through casting Mana Spring, while healing every 10 seconds (something that most likely does not occur too often within a raid setting), is (59*12) + 300 - (118), or 890 mana regained.

Eight hundred and ninety mana regained from Mana Spring, under unrealistic conditions. Under an actual DPS role where we are chain-casting, that regen is bumped down to the original net gain of 275 mana.

I dunno about you, but the equivalent of having an extra lightning bolt every minute before we go out of mana (which happens in about 2-3 minutes) isn't exactly terrific mana regen.

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And elemental can't DPS like a mage or a lock but you pop a frost shock and go to whacking the enemy. Over and over. That is why some of the shammies who are elemental went enchancement oto.

So all of a sudden I can't want the playstyle I prefer most to get equal treatment with the other DPS playstyle, and provide an actual benefit to the group?

How ya doing, buddy?

I don't want to be as good at DPS as a mage, though. What I want is to be able to support and increase the DPS of others through doing damage myself, either through increasing the damage, or increasing the sustainability of others, like Enhancement shammies will be able to do come expansion. Totem of Wrath and Wrath of Air don't cut it for that, because if they wanted me to, they could have me drop those and heal. What I want is for them to require me to DPS in order to provide those buffs.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Something to the effect of that, yes. I'm fine with being a support class, so long as the playstyle I spec for is supported by the talents. As it is, the Elemental talents increase the output of the spells associated with Elemental playstyle (Lightning Bolt, CL, our shocks, etc.), but do not give us a reason we can point to and say "THAT is why we should be allowed to do damage."

Jam it back in, in the dark.

lollin' so hard at The Stoppable Force. Prototype, maybe?

Also, it's really nice to see thrown weapons with actual STATS on them. Considering Blizzard's recent trend towards encouraging rogues to use them (Deadly Throw, for example), I would be really disappointed if they didn't support it through itemization.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Six Machine

:lolsign:

:lolsign:

Any build without either Shield Slam, MS, or Bloodthirst automatically fails. =\

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Zio

No, because that is what my undead warrior is and it works for me. To each thier own, that's like saying mace spec rogues are stupid/fail hell actually lets put it this way. That is like saying ANY rogue spec other then dagger/ambush speced fails.

The warrior class is one that lacks any on-demand instant attacks outside of their 31-point talents. Overpower, Revenge, Sunder Armor and Whirlwind are the only ones they have. Overpower requires a dodge to use, Revenge does crap for damage and is mainly a threat generator, Sunder Armor does no damage (although I have heard stories about prot-PVP builds that get a few sunders up and cackle as their one-hander starts hitting as hard as a two-hander) and Whirlwind is an AOE auto-attack on a cooldown.

MS provides excellent damage on top of one of the best debuffs in the game, Bloodthirst is excellent with a lot of AP (and there's nothing like fighting a combat rogue who disarms you and popping a 1.4K Bloodthirst on him ), and Shield Slam is invaluable as a tanking tool, especially with the new changes.

In PVP, Bloodthirst/MS are as valuable as Tactical Mastery because a Warrior is one of the most easily CC'd classes in the game, meaning that they have an incredibly small window of opportunity to actually attack. Also, 2H weapons are usually the best for PVP (although if you're insanely geared DW is excellent, too), and their slow swing timer is counter-productive to using "on next melee" attacks like Heroic Strike. In essence, the 31-pointers provide burst damage on demand, which is above all else king in PVP.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Zio

How does bloodthirst pop 1.4k when most people for one don't up thier unarmed(Though mine is 300 cause of teh fact you never know when you'll be disarmed for one and second cause I can still crit high/do good/fast amounts of damage.)?

Because Bloodthirst is 40% of your Attack Power, and that's it. Weapon damage is not figured into the equation. Granted, in order to get a 1.4k bloodthirst crit, you'd have to have like... 2.8k AP (i.e. raid-buffed), or a battleground buff. =\

I was speaking idiomatically.

Yeah, 40% of your weapon damage is really, really shitty.

which is why I sorta think they will wind up buffing Devastate's damage if they're pushing for prot-PVP builds like I think they are...

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

He has a van out back.

FELIPE NO

Jesus Christ. That's... like Brian Peppers and High Overlord Omokk had a lovechild and put it on a diet of steroids and growth hormones. O.O

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...19675&pageNo=1

BC information on shammies, more specifically, Enhancement shammies. Yay for being viable MELEE DPS... but I wanna be viable magic DPS. ;_;

Shame that our Earth Elemental sucks ass right now though. 200 damage a pop with no aggro component, and leashed to a 5 HP totem, at a 750 mana cost and a 20 minute cooldown? =\

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...19646&pageNo=1

Aaaand BC information on Warriors. Surprisingly, it's not QUITE as bad as it's been made out to be. 31/30/0 is, according to people in the alpha, actually viable as a pure PVE DPS spec, but it'll be pretty much worthless in PVP. Spell Reflect is also looking insanely good right now. Apparently they've changed the UI so that you can see the casting time they have, which makes using this a LOT easier.

The rage normalization also appears to be not as big a problem as everybody thought, either, which is good.

Most amazing jew boots

If you want aesthetics then reroll Troll.

Once you go Horde, you'll never be bored!

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Well, Warriors got buffed out the wazoo today.

2 points' TM trainable at 20, with the rest as a 3-point talent in Prot.

10% health regen every time they get stunned/immobilized.

Imp. MS that increases damage by 5% and reduces the cooldown by 1 second.

Rampage buffed to give 300 AP.

Not bad, overall. They need it, Lord knows.

Shammies got an okay update, too. SS buffed with a mana cost and cooldown reduction. But no Elemental changes. Again. =\

There are others (Rogues get a new Combat talent which gives them a 20% chance to regen 15 energy when they attack with an offhand, which coincidentally also works with Shiv), but I'm too lazy to link them.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Xellos

That's fucking sad.

I've seen some GREEN items from burning crusade that are better then like T1-3. This is such a stupid thing. All those people that spent more then a YEAR getting their gear will be fucked over.

Nice job blizzard. May the cash be with you.

Eh, I'm indifferent to this. The way I see it, there were three options they could take.

They could either balance the new content around the assumption that you HAVE raided, and that you DO have BWL or better gear, and fuck over 90% of the population.

They could balance the new content around the assumption that you play casually and either can't or won't raid, and EVERYBODY would be pissed because the raiders would fly to 70, beat the new raid dungeons, and cry about how the expansion offered nothing real new to them.

Meanwhile, the CASUALS are pissed because the raiders levelled quicker than they did and started raiding sooner than they did and the raiders are taking that new gear and fucking around with the casuals.

The final solution is to balance the new content around the assumption that you DO have good gear, and then provide ACCESS to the good gear. It's not the perfect solution, but it's inevitable, since Blizzard allowed the gear disparity to get so out of hand.

And considering that raiders will wind up getting better gear than everybody else because they're RAIDING, all this is pointless anyway.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

At least YOUR Teir 4 gear looks something like it represents your class.

Shammy Tier 4 gear looks like something that would be more suited on a mage.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Ugh, 90 bucks? No thanks, I think I'll stick with the vanilla edition.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

So jealous

Wish I could get in... lord knows I'm not playing my shammy much these days. What's the point when anything I do will be more or less pointless when the expansion pack comes out?

Oh well, time to see if they've done anything to fix Elemental yet... *sigh*

FELIPE NO

Meh, gives me more time to play Phoenix Wright 2 when it comes out. I'm not all that bothered with it. =\

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I haven't seen queues since I deleted my characters on Burning Legion and started only playing on Thorium Brotherhood.

RP servers FTW~

Jam it back in, in the dark.

...They posted that info a week ago.

I sincerely hoping that you didn't refresh your account between then and now.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Well, I got my Elements shoulders tonight. That makes 4 pieces, plus the Tier .5 bindings.

sup microwave armor~

How ya doing, buddy?

Trust me if you're going for just the two week trial and stick to PVE. On PVP the second you run into a contested area (which is anything past Westfall/Barrens, depending on your faction), you come face to face with a bunch of 60s running around killing you for no reason other than to piss you off.

As for faction, to be honest it doesn't really matter what faction you play until you get to the later levels (it only REALLY starts to matter around 45-50-ish). Just pick what's more appealing to you.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Agreed. Also keep in mind that he's doing a 2-week trial of the game, not purchasing a subscription. You say that "it'll be more even when he's 60..." well, surprisingly enough, he won't have TIME to get to 60, and if he does, he'll be so massively outgeared he'll be cannon fodder to anybody above 50. =\

Trust me when I say roll PVE.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Oh, joy. Well, so much for getting any changes done to Elemental (unless they do it between this patch and BC).

And to make things worse, according to reports from beta testers, shamans are more or less free HKs in the expansion. Doesn't surprise me much, either, since in terms of PVP both Elemental and Enhancement are more or less going into the expansion with the pre-expansion talent trees as far as usefulness is concerned.

*sigh* At least the fire elemental isn't UTTERLY terrible...

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?