Pregnant teen needs help! (The sequel)

I think it's pretty harsh to say that she's clinging to her mother's hem. She's a single mom with two kids and no job, no prospects whatsoever from your post....of course she doesn't want to make even more changes! I can't imagine what her situation must feel like, and neither can you. So I think the only thing you can do is be there for her and listen, and not judge her. Offer practical help, show her where to get information. Help her become more self-reliant. But don't put her down, because that certainly won't help.

Also, there may be other reasons why she's still so close to her mom. Does her mom perhaps rely on her as well? All that we don't know.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Unfortunately, cutting somebody off is always problematic when they're your own daughter (which is why I think her mother's reaction is understandable), and even more so when there are children involved. It's a common cliché that letting a person hit rock bottom will eventually make things better, when in fact, it may just lead to them getting stuck there.

I agree that you've done a lot for her, and that SHE eventually needs to take care of her own life - it's not your responsibility to do that for her. But I'd still keep an eye out for her for the sake of the kids, although I'm convinced you were going to do that, anyway.

Whatever happens, though, it's not your responsibility. She needs to find her own way. And maybe her family's way and their advice wasn't right for her, who knows? If her mother wants her to move out, she should talk to her about it, and tighten up the rules/conditions for her. She needs to get her expectations across ("if you're going to live here, I want you to a) do XYZ around the house, b) ..."), and make it clear that this is a sort of contract. If your cousin is supposed to grow up, she needs to be treated like an adult. And if she thinks she can do whatever she wants, then perhaps she needs to realise that she also has to carry the consequences, and that other people won't always take care of these things for her.

People grow with the challenges they face, but only with the right kind of support. And that's often difficult to give. Once again, it is her own responsibility to get her life together, and only she knows what she wants, but it does help to be supported through this process of gaining independence. So what I would do is probably to ask her what she wants from life (what kind of job, etc.), and how she thinks she can achieve that. Then perhaps give her some job websites and phone numbers of support services, where she can get professional advice....and the rest is up to her. You can't take that step for her.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

The mother could kick her out, for example. Rules exist for adults as welll, it has nothing to do with treating her like a teenager. Our whole society is based on these rules. It's not like she's going to say "you have to be home by 12", but rather that she's establishing a contract with her - the terms and conditions for her to live there, and how she's going to contribute. If it doesn't work out, the mother will have to be rigorous and actually kick her out, and that's probably what I see as the biggest problem, because it doesn't sound like that's likely to happen.

And to me, the cousin sounds very disoriented and unsure what she wants/can get. Her stubbornness is mainly self-protection, and it is striking that she always made her whole moves dependent on the guys she was with. That's why I suggested helping her in terms of practical advice and listening to what SHE wants, to her own ideas and plans. Of course there have to be boundaries to this as well, and things she has to do on her own, but as a starting point, it sounds like support would do her some good. Don't forget about the children.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

Okay, look. I don't know how old you are nor how much life experience you have or anything, but in MY house, where I live and pay for, I do what I think is right and wrong.

I'm 20 as well, like this girl, and I live on my own in a foreign country, go to uni and finance it through orphan's pension and three part-time jobs. Not that any of this is really relevant to the point.

Quote:

I set my own rules and I live by them, come hell or high water. Why? Because I am an adult. I know the difference between right and wrong, cleanliness and squalor, screw with or without a condom, so on and so forth.

I am responsible for myself. Something that this girl should try being. Instead, she is asking that other people be responsible for her actions - which is not very mature of her. I would understand if she was younger or whatever, but seriously.

My point is this: when living at home with your parents, even if to get yourself back on your feet, you really shouldn't NEED to have the rules laid out for you. Out of respect for your parents and gratitude for their letting you stay awhile, you should be on your BEST BEHAVIOR, consideration-wise.

I don't disagree with any of this. Of course this is the way things should be. Unfortunately, it's just not the way things are in many cases. She shouldn't need rules, she should be mature enough to know what she's doing, she should know and do so many things...but she doesn't. And the objective is to get her to a point where she can take care of herself, and starts taking responsibility.

Quote:

Contracting with your fuck-up daughter isn't a great idea, considering she hasn't quite got a great track record.

Of course, that's my opinion. Until she showed evidence that she wants to contribute or contract, the girl is out.

That isn't logical, though. You can't not make any demands, and then kick her out without a warning. I'd really make that contract with her, and if she doesn't abide by it (and it doesn't look like she will), that's where your tough love comes in.

I just don't think that kicking her out straight away, dumping her on the street with a baby and another on the way is the best idea. I agree that maybe she needs to feel this, she needs to experience this in order for something to click in her mind - but the danger really is that she won't know how to help herself, and that could get dangerous for the kids.

Quote:

Why do you think this has anything to do with life direction and confusion over where she wants to go in life? (ie: what she "wants")
[...]
The girl can't get her man to wear a fucking rubber. What makes you think she can plan her own life out right now??

I don't understand why you think she should explore her life desires right now. Girl needs to clean up, get a job, and support her two babies.

Her lack of direction has everything to do with it. Do you really think she got pregnant a second time by accident? She took a chance, and she knew what she was doing. Perhaps this gave her the sense of a social role (which she doesn't seem to be fulfilling adequately), maybe it was a way of keeping the guy, maybe she wanted a family...who knows, I can't read her mind. But from the way she sounds, it does make sense for her to get pregnant so young, twice, because it provides her with a role.

In any case, I didn't mean "what she wants" as in "I want to go to college now and be a doctor, and then earn millions and buy a house with a swimming pool". Of course her situation has to be considered. It's a matter of combining what she wants with what she can realistically achieve, and what her family needs. With her mother threatening to kick her out, what she wants right now should be a job, and quickly - any job. And figure out a way to earn money, and what to do with her children while she does so - which really isn't easy. These are two big things that she has to worry about right now. But she needs to know what she's doing. She needs to have some sort of plan in her mind, some sort of goal - which, right now, should be to keep her kids and herself materially all right.

That's why I think having that talk with her is still important. It's not about always telling her what to do (from the way she sounds, that really doesn't help - and if you get too judgemental, people tend to just shut down), but making her realise for herself what she needs to do. It's not easy, but it's possible if you ask her directive questions. Having that talk with her with some practical planning involved (e.g. where to find a job in that bad area, or where to go to find a job) might help. Then again, it might not, but that's all you can do at this point. It means that you at least gave it your best shot to help. It's all you can do.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Define "proper home". If she gives it up for adoption, it will change everything, for her and the older sibling, as well as the guy and the rest of her family. But I agree, she needs to give all of this serious thought and draw the necessary consequences. Because if the kids are suffering (doesn't sound like they are as long as her mum is there to "fix things" for her), somebody needs to alert social services. Like someone said in the first thread, it may just be what she needs to wake her up. Also, aren't there any parenting classes or any other support groups for young mothers in your area?

I was speaking idiomatically.

In the Fourth Valley Area, which is where I live at the moment, there are both support groups for single parents, as well as classes in primary care for babies. These are free of charge, and partly run by the NHS. And no, that's not because Stirling is such a posh, rich place - it has high unemployment rates and the highest suicide rate in Scotland. So don't give me any of that hippie talk.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

"Hippie talk?" Yea, no, see I was accusing you of the hippie talk.

Yes, I did understand that. I just didn't think it was justified.

Quote:

I say "Bitch is dumb. She needs a swift kick to the ass."

And you follow up with "Holy hell Sass, how dare you be so awful to imply that this girl isn't capable of taking care of herself!"

I am sitting here, dumbfounded by you.

Then you misunderstood me. My reply was actually more along the lines of "how is pointing out that she isn't taking care of herself and her kids very well bringing Chibi any closer to a solution?" It's pretty obvious that she keeps making mistakes, that she's stubborn and keeps screwing things up even more for herself and her kids. But it's also obvious that Chibi cares about her. So shouldn't the point be to find out to what extent something can be done, rather than just saying "forget that bitch"?

How convenient it must be to divide the world simply into good parents and bad parents - you can just stop interacting with anyone who makes a mistake! Good thing you're free of them.

Quote:

At the same time, if we're going to start talking about parenting classes, you've just got to know how stupid that shit is. "Here is how you keep baby warm. Here is how you feed baby. Please do not let baby sit in squalor or put nasty things in it's mouth!"

You'd be amazed how many people could do with even that bit of "stupid" advice. Just go to any local fast food place and watch some of the parents with their babies. A girl who uses a pizza box as a litter box for her cat sounds like she could use it.

Quote:

People have been rearing children for centuries without "parenting classes." Why do you think some dumb broad should need them now?

People have been rearing children for centuries without them, but they also had 10 of them and lost many of them before they even reached the age of 5. So it's all good, I guess, let's go back to the good old days and have higher child mortality rates, nothing wrong with that.

FELIPE NO

They certainly weren't, but what does the mere existence of children for centuries tell us about parenting in relation to our expectations of it? Not much.

You've got a point, Sass, the girl needs to start taking responsibility for her kids and herself, and not leave it up to others. I DON'T DISAGREE WITH THAT (and yes, I have read the previous thread, hence the pizza box comment). So the conditions need to be toughened for her. I just don't think kicking her out on the street will do the children or her much good. Neither will walking up to her and saying "you're a lazy, dependent bitch" - that is NOT constructive criticism, it only makes people shut down.

I don't pretend to have a solution that will change everything, all I can say is that my next try would probably be a mixture of helping her to help herself (by pointing her in the right direction - job websites, advice centres, etc.), while at the same time putting more pressure on her (by telling her she either has to start working harder, or she'll have to move out and figure things out herself) . Positive reinforcement tends to work a lot better than punishment (and yes, I do realise that she's a woman, not a puppy). Maybe it will work, maybe it won't, but it's pretty much all that's left for Chibi's family to do, because it sounds like they have tried everything.

How ya doing, buddy?

Well, I'm just hoping that she herself doesn't think her life is pathetic and damaged to the point of no return, because it's not. And once you don't see the point anymore, you're not going to work hard to improve things, because everything's hopeless, anyway She hasn't got a job, granted, and probably not much of an education, either. But that doesn't mean her life is ruined. She might actually come to appreciate her children at one point, if she had some sort of direction in life. For npw,her options are restricted, she has to be grateful if she gets any kind of job, and has to figure out what to do with her kids while she goes to work, which isn't easy, either.

Sass, I wasn't suggesting that mum does everything for her and sends her to work each day. The point is that the girl is supposed to reach a state where she can take care of herself, not to patronise her entirely. I don't know what kind of advice her family have given her. I'm sure they have done their best, and it sounds like they have been incredibly supportive. The thing is that any "do this"/"do that" advice usually doesn't work that well, because people need to feel that they are in control. "You have to make a decision, here are some options" may work better. THen again, it may not, but at least it's a new approach. It can't hurt to try it. Although she definitely may be past that point, and she may be stubborn and not respond to it. In this case, there's nothing else you can do, but at least you've ensured that she knows some options if you have to distance yourself from her.

Most amazing jew boots

I agree. But where does listening to her come into the equation for you?

There's nowhere I can't reach.