Why not legalize prostitution?

I am a conservative, I am picketing this thread.



But anyways, if they do make prositution legal, they will need HEAVY infulence in the midwest. Seriously, fucking anything east of Nevada, and everything West of Virginia is completely fuckboring.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

To be honest, what would be the big difference between legalizing prostitution, and oh, let's say building an amusement park?

Both would be taxable, both would offer thrilling rides, fun and games in a safe, secure environment. The only difference is, instead of "you have to be this tall to ride" It would be "You have to be this old to ride".

The risks would potentially be the same in some ways. Each faction has their own one or two percent chance, in a million, to fail. Whether it be a rollar coaster breaking down, or one of the girls you paid for for the hour might have the clap. Either way, low, low risk.

Of course the biggest thing, with our 'christian fueled moral government' is that there, of course, was no passage in the good bible saying "Thou shall not seek thrills in a bouncy castle." Which is probably why America, who is always greedy for that money money money, hasn't gone into making prostitution legal.

Disclaimer: This was all in good fun in comparing Disney Land with Super Neon Man Man Land.

Edit/Add on: Also, who's to really say that this field, if made legal, would be dominated by women? I'm sure a lot of men out there secretly wish to be man-whores. Rarely do you see footage of females going into a chipndales or whatever, to get them a peice of man beef...because, quite frankly, the media always seems to turn towards the females to sell sex, (look at the AXE commercials for christ's sake). Hell, the annoynmity(sp?) of it all would almost guarantee that there would be a lot of bitchy, high office working females wanting their crack at a younger fabio look alike. Sure, men are pigs, but you throw a single, buff guy wearing white cufflings and a black tie around his neck, and nothing more, into a pit of women...hoooo boy you don't see much afterwards

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by DarkMageOzzie

Here's an interesting thought on the subject. Prostitution is illegal, but it's legal to be a member of hate spreading groups like the KKK or Westburo Baptists because of Freedom of speech. So... according to our government Prostitution is more evil then the KKK. That's some backwards morality there...

Well, that's the whole first amendment right there. Freedom of speech and Freedom of group orginization or some shit like that.

Though, honestly, if a prostitution union popped up, that would be interesting to see.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I know for a fact you are just trolling this entire thread, and yes, I know I am falling for this sad troll attempt, but it's all good in my book.

Originally Posted by killerpineapple

Whichever side you are in favor of, there is going to be a split between people who are comfortable and people who aren't with, oh...let's say a kindergarten teacher who paid her way through college by being a prostitute. If prostitution is legal, who's to say that's unacceptable? How do people in Vegas deal with these issues? :\

I'll tell you exactly how Vegas deals with these issues.


THEY AREN'T UPTIGHT PRICKS.

Now just hear me out on this one. Let's take your kindergarten teacher for example. What if, back when you were that age, she was the BEST damn teacher you had. Was kind, understanding, and was quite knowledgeable and helped you understand the world better. In your eyes to this day she was a damn good teacher, and a damn good citizen, nothing about her you could fault her for...

Three days from now you find out that she was a legal prostitute and used that money to become a teacher.

Now you are met with a options. Either you can look at her as that awesome teacher, who had a private life before becoming a teacher and did things her way to become what she wanted to be. Or, you can look at her in utter disgust and brand her as a whore, and a no good scum sucking waste of life.

People in Vegas, apparently, mostly choose option one. While religious fanatics, and downright assholes who live in Vegas typically choose el numero dos.

I will say that yes, the actions and choices we make in life define us as human beings. But you also have to remember that applies to people you care for and love as well. For example, what if your boyfriend, or girlfriend, back in highschool/college, happend to just be EXACTLY like those people that bullied you, or you happend to bully around. If they aren't today, are you going to hold it against them that they were back then?

And that is the kind of mentallity I think Vegas is running. What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas after all.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by killerpineapple

Would anyone want their sister to be a prostitute? How about their child? Spouse? Parent? I'm seriously interested in what people think about this. Does prostitution bear an unfair negative stigma? Or is there something inherently undesirable about that profession?

Freedom of choice is a bitch. No doubt about it. When your darling little angel of a christian daughter hits the age of 18 years old, she can tell you to shove a cock up your bum, flip you the bird, and go off and do whatever she wants to because she is of legal age that this country deems fit to say she can make her own choices.

Now, would you want your daughter, if her life long dream is to become a prostitute, working on the streets, or would you rather see her in an establishment that is well organized, has benefits, and seems to be low risk due to it's shelter, and overall knowledge that a business like this would be slightly dangerous, so the security is bumped up?

If my daughter's going to be selling herself in anyway for cash, the least I can hope for is that it's in a relatively safe environment. You'd be a cold, heartless bastard to wish otherwise, and if you want to disown your child, that's fine...THAT IS YOUR CHOICE...same as it is their choice to want to be in that profession.

As for a wife or husband, well, different strokes for different folks. If you meet a prostitute and fall in love, and she does the same...once again, would you rather be it in a situation that she is unable to get out of because of her pimp? Or would you rather have her be able to easily say 'I quit' and give her two weeks notice?

If you are already married, and she decides or he decides they want to become a 'ho, everyone is going to handle it in a different way. Why you ask? Well, because that's the thing about christianity not ruling everyone in the world with an iron fist. Like it or not, we have free will, and no one can tell us how to live our lives. The only time they can is if we go out of our way to physically harm, or cause emotional harm to someone else, and becoming a prostitute well, depending on the person you are with, that could hurt them mentally of course...just like if you are offered a job promotion, and you have to either move the kids (thus harming htem emotionally by having to lose their friends and such) or if you have to break up with a guy or gal because you have to move and they don't want to.

Simply put, killerpineapple, the only reason prostitution bears a negative symbol is because your dainty little religion barred it as such. Just think, if the people who wrote the bible oh...let's say had a thing against people who were hair stylists back in the days, cut hair...it might be TABOO to get your hair cut! My personal belief is that each one of them tried to get with a hookah, and they didn't have enough cash, thus leading them to say prostitues were BAD NEWS.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by killerpineapple

There's a lot of people like myself who would be utterly heartbroken if someone they loved got involved in prostitution. Of course everyone is entitled to exercise their free will, but at times it leads to bad decisions. And while some bad decisions are an inevitable part of life, it would be horribly sad if someone I care about turns to prostitution. For me it's a bad decision for anyone to make which is the major reason why I'm against the legalization of it.

I'm not sure entirely, perhaps someone can find a source for me that backs this statement I make up. But I believe I heard somewhere a while ago, that back in the day, and I mean before christ, before all this religion hoohaa got so way out of hand...being a prostitute was a magnificent way to make a living, and if you were a whore, albeit an attractive one, in a lot of cases you lived a life of luxury, and often times if someone in power, a political figure if you will be it a King, Prince, Advisor or whatnot...if they fancied you, then you were set for life.

And once again you go into the "I don't like the idea of it, so it shoudln't be legalized". Well, a lot of people don't like the war in Iraq, but guess what? It's still going on. So people learn to deal with it, and the war going on right now has probably cost more lives than prostitution ever would if it was legalized.

An idiotic argument, but it matches what you believe about the whole situation it seems.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Bradylama

This also doesn't account for why, necessarily, prostitution is a bad decision. With social and economic opportunities being the way they are for many people it can actually be the best decision, pimps and all. Are conservatives like you willing to give people the relief to keep them from turning tricks?

This is just it though Brady. You tend to forget that most conservatives are bible thumpers...most I've met. Most of them don't give a damn about the people on the streets right now. All they care about is perserving their way of life, what they believe is right and wrong, and they want to make damn sure that if anyone is doing what they consider 'wrong' that it be under the worst conditions possible so that they either become a born again, or die.

People like killerpineapple here, they don't care about people in general, all they care about are the people they 'fall in love with' or family members and how they can further protect their morals. They are like a subtle Westboro Baptist Church.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by killerpineapple

The effect prostitution has on people (in my opinion) is damaging to them on a physical and mental level. This damage extends beyond the two people involved and begins to affect others. There is abuse associated with prostitution and after a little research I realized that legalizing it won't automatically solve those problems. I'm not blindly following my religious teachings...I've analyzed it, pondered it, and I honestly agree with it.

Hey guess what? High school has a profound damaging effect on a lot of kids' mentallity and physical state. What with being bullied, teased, and beat-up.

I have an idea, how about we abolish schools altogether? Because I know my entire high school career was icky, and I personally believe that the world would be a better place without teachers and establishments in which they can do their craft.

See how silly your words are above now?

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by killerpineapple

And I'm totally on board with you guys that safety issues with prostitution will go way down if it's legalized. I'm more interested however in protecting people from becoming involved in the first place. I wouldn't want the people I love to do it (most people feel that way) and I feel that even people I don't know should be protected from it. Some people want the right to be able to fudge up their life. I'd rather they didn't have those opportunities.

Grail: Sorry, I don't quite see what was so silly about my words. I'll play along though. I don't think high school should be outlawed. Instead we should legalize bullying and physical assault. That way the teachers and staff, who are stronger and wiser, can provide those same experiences in a safer environment with immediate access to medical treatment and counseling. The bad things still happen, but the damage is reduced to an acceptable level. Perhaps it will open up career opportunities for bullying specialists thereby helping with the economy as well. Bleh, what I just wrote is juvenile, irrelevant, and worst of all unfunny. But the highschool/prostitution comparison wasn't very well constructed either.

Look at what you just posted above me. You'd like to protect them from fudging up their lives. Fair enough, but guess what? Even the smartest kids who go to high school could end up blowing their own brains out, or someone else's due to bullying and non-acceptance. I certainly don't want MY CHILDREN to experience this kind of travesty such as bullying. So denying them the experience of high school, and what it can do for them, I am in fact doing my job as a lovely member of society by closing my eyes, ignoring the facts, and going nyah nyah nyah.

Is this not sinking in to you? Or are you just a troll who's opinion is law?

I just don't think you seem to get it. You don't want your kid to grow up and be a prostitue, fair enough, but I don't want my kid being bullied throughout their whole life like I was in school. Either way, however, it's bound to happen. What choices do I have? Home school? Private school? Teach my kid to beat up other kids first?

Personally, I think you're nothing but scum. Telling adults what to do with themselves, and making sure one job profession that's been as old as time continues to stay outlawed so that those who might not even WANT to be in that profession, forced if you will, continue to stay that way because it's not legalized...that's just fucking pathetic. And you sir will be the one burning in hell.

Honestly, put two and two together pineapple. If prostitution becomes legalized, that puts less demand on streetwalkers because, for the most part, everyone will be going to the actual establishments due to health and safety reasons. Streetwalker rates go down, Pimps start dissapearing...Less girls forced into being streetwalkers because, well, there would be no use for them.

I think it's pathetic that you only want to protect your loved ones. IF something good could come out of legalizing prostitution. Why not be for it? If it makes the world a better place because people CHOOSE to go into the profession, why would it be so bad for it to be legalized?

Oh...I forgot...It's icky. Well checking cow shit for health and a steady diet is an icky job...but is it outlawed? Fuck NO bitch. And once again, I'm going to sit back and lounge in the sweet irony that your daughter, upon reaching adulthood, will in fact probably turn tricks for a living. Sweet irony for those that can't get it through their heads that compassion just doesn't mean caring for immediate family members.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by killerpineapple

or my right to marry who I want

Exactly. If women or men can't sell their bodies for money in a well organized way, and if homosexuals can't marry who they want to marry...what gives you the right, right now, to do the same?

Edit: As for my whole 'highschool/prostitution' deal. Think of it this way: Think of the teachers as prostitutes, and then think of all the men going to their service as students or whatnot.

In each area there are risks and dangers to be had...students getting bullied in high school, women finding out that their husbands cheated on them with a prostitute blah blah blah...either way, both are damaging in their own rights, but in the end who really ends up getting hurt the most? You can't tell me a straight answer like that.

Kid snaps, shoots up a school...jealous guy/girl over a prostitute shoots up a brothel. Both would be rare occurances.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by killerpineapple

As i said earlier, i agree with Denicalis that there's no chance I can convince you to see it my way, and I'm not going to change either.

That's fine and dandy, more than likely a lot of people won't change their views either. My biggest beef is that you are saying prostitution is harmful in a lot of ways, and therefore should continue to be illegal no matter what the circumstances are. Because of your religious/personal beliefs, this is the reason why, and apparently, the only reason why you think it should continue to be illegal.

The problem I have with that angle is you are refusing to see that prostitution has the POTENTIAL to do a lot of good, if it is legalized. You look right at the facts and ignore them completely because of your moral beliefs. What we don't understand is how you could be so against something that would cause a lot of certain crime rates to go down, help stop the spread of STD's and improve the well being of a lot of people.

As an example AGAIN: If your daughter turned 18 years old, and despite your best efforts to shield her from the world, she decides to become a prostitute, and there is nothing you can do about it. Would you rather have her walking the streets, getting beaten by some guy if she doesn't make a certain ammount of cash, or rather, would you want her in an establishment where at any time she can deny service, get good health benefits, or just quit at anytime and do something else with her life?

Or will you be a typical bible thumper, and assume she was never a part of your family to begin with?

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Originally Posted by killerpineapple

Grail: To me the good that would result from legalized prostitution doesn't nearly match the good if it were abolished altogether and I'm talking about exterminating it even in its illegal form. I'm not ignoring the facts. I'm aware of them and still have arrived at my conclusion. Why do so many people automatically dismiss statistics that show that there is a drastic increase in the amount of abuse and violence against American workers in the sex industry? And that includes when it is legal. Even though I know it's highly unlikely that prostitution can be eradicated completely in places where it is illegal I'm unwillingly to give up on that cause. Because if it could be stopped entirely it would benefit society better than if were simply legalized and given government support. Disagree with me if you wish, but that is my reasoning.

Yes, and if I could close my eyes and wish away all the BAD BAD things in the world, why, that would just be happy cakes and gum drops! Oh boy yes it would! Grow up. Violence, war, and prostitution have been as old as time itself. Instead of closing your eyes and wishing away the problem, you coudl be doing so much more by at least enacting laws that would control it, and make it safer. Course with violence and war, well, the only laws that go into effect make each case there more effiencent and a faster way to kill. So go figure.

Quote:

If I hadn't mentioned it before, I would be heartbroken if my child became a prostitute. But that's not enough to magically make me want to alter the system so that's she protected from doing something that I told her not to do and that the law told her not to do too. In the end I am more concerned for her soul than her physical well being which is why I would prefer her to grow up in an environment that more closely shares my views.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want my kid growing up and selling her hoochie on an everyday basis. But I have learned that the more you shelter, and try to keep your child from finding out the bad things in this world, the more they are curious about it, the more attracted to it they become. It's human nature to be adventurous, curious, and moreso, seek what is forbidden. Your fucking Eve knew that much, according to the bible.

And as far as growing up in an environment that shares your views, that's a good start. Move to some place where prostitution isn't as widespread. Oh, and if she ever DOES ask what prostitution is, make sure you tell her that it's a filthy race of people that have no rights, no morals...they don't take baths, they eat babies and they all should be stoned because they belong to that part of society. That should scare her enough.

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Originally Posted by killerpineapple

Well, we aren't supposed to interfere with free will unless we feel it is harmful to people. Myself and others feel that harm indeed occurs thus we can set up laws to prevent it. Another group sees no harm being done and feels prostitution should be protected by law.

And guess what buddy? Most of our laws...oddly enough...stem from religious settlers. I have no idea why, but prostitution is the only crime in the US right now that is only illegal because it could 'hurt' someone's feelings if someone they cared about became a prostitute.

Your 'harm' that you talk about is someone doing something that doesn't even INVOLVE you, making a choice on how they work. That is selfish, and by god, idiotic.

While we are at it. How about we target another demographic Killerpinapple. Every adult has sexual urges...the urge to procreate, if you will. Well, let's say that someone is so emotionally sheltered, has an odd quirk about them, or for the longest time, even though he has done his best to be a good person...he just can not find anyone to have sex with him.

Let's also say that this guy has a track record of being a nice guy, but dag-gonnit...every female around him is only into the 'wifebeating' kind of guy. This guy is at his wits end...he can't find a girl, he can't even derive pleasure from strokin the bishop. Why should those who are socially incapable, or overall not that attractive, be deprived from doing a basic human act? Sure, he has to pay for it, but in the end he finally is satisfied, and perhaps helps out his self-esteem/social outlook on life.

And ya know what twinkle-toes? The majority of people who would use legalized protitution would fit under this category. Does that make them a bad person? In your eyes, yes it would. Despite the fact that said gentleman above did nothing to harm himself, or the prostitute he payed, he is still a bad person in your book, deserving of going to hell because he didn't want to suffer under the image that your god made for him.

So...Is it in your beliefs that a man, or a woman, should go without having sex because they can not find a suitable mate? That, try as they might, they can not find a wife or husband, so that deems them unworthy of having sex? That's what I hate most about people who are religious and have faith. No matter how nice they come off, they ALWAYS fucking make themselves look to be better than everyone else in the world.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Deni just summed up about everything that I had to say about your last post, Pineapple.

Most laws that are still in effect today, had been instituted back ages ago. Times change, people change, morals change.

A fine example would be that now instead of sacrificing a goat to appease your god, all you have to do is believe in him and pray. Back in the day sacrificing goats/chickens was a common thing, now...fuck...PETA would be on your ass faster than a gay man with a ticket to the ass parade.

Additional Spam:

Originally Posted by Soluzar

I suppose he assumes that he looks pretty good when compared with LordsSword, but honestly... I'm not sure just how great the differences are.

He doesn't have a quote from the bible after every sentance?

Additional Spam:

Originally Posted by killerpineapple

Who is saying that having sex is a right?

Also...you have got to be fucking KIDDING ME. We can have sex with whomever we desire, as long as they are conscenting to it as well. We have the right to have sex with others who are willing to agree to have sex with us as well.

What we DON'T have a right to do is have sex with those who do not fully understand what they are getting into, and we do not have the right to force ourselves onto someone who isn't willing to do so.

If you say that we don't have a right to have sex, well, take away people who need machines to help themselves breath, or take away the jobs people have that help the mentally handicap eat right. Some people need help eating, breathing, and pooping right...some people need help having sex. What the hell is your problem?

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by killerpineapple

I would say that racial discrimination is a moral issue but it turns out that if I do I'm wrong. Some people, lots of them in fact, don't want the government limiting their rights to choose who they can hire, or let in a restaurant, or admit into a school.

And GASP! Lots of people don't want the government limiting their right to choose a profession that does not infringe on anyone else's rights, or harm them in anyway possible.

With prostitution, the only thing you're talking about is the 'collateral' harm that will come with it becoming legalized. That it will hurt your feelings.

Well, I think a lot of small business owners feelings got hurt when wal-mart strolled into town and put them out of business. Should walmart's be illegal now?

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Watts

Like it, or not morality has played a huge historical role in defining the American legal system. If we didn't legislate morality then slavery would still be an accepted institution of society. Just not a modern one. The only argument the abolitionists had against slavery was a moral one. William H. Seward, a fervent abolitionist argued against slavery based upon a moral argument. The Constitution didn't have much to say in that regard, until an amendment was passed.

Slaves were not citizens, just property. Kinda like fetuses.

Oh, the historical irony.

I'm not sure what the point of this is, unless you ar referring to the fact that most prositutes nowadays are slaves because of the situations they are in. Granted, not all of them. Though, I do think it's somewhat odd that they are arrested for doing a profession they may not want to be in, but have no way out other than to be arrested.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Eschbach

No, I realize that it's been dead for awhile but I wasn't sure if I should start another thread. I noticed this place has been quiet for almost a month now and wanted to see if anyone would like to pick this particular discussion back up.

From what I'm to understand, threads that have been dead for a year are subject to having a discussion restarted in a new thread.

If it's 3 months...not so much. Though, I can't really see it as being anything different from what has been seen here. But I can say this, with SEX becoming so bad and evil and bad and nasty...before long we'll be using 3 seashells and every restaurant will be a Taco Bell with how anything that is 'immoral' is bad for society and should be banned.

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Originally Posted by Eschbach

Go back and read my argument. That's not what I said at all.

I'll quote it because I think this is the main thing you may be overlooking:

I don't think you've ever seen Demolition Man.

As soon as we start outlawing everything that is bad, everything that can harm you physically or psychologically, you start taking away people's freedom and free will. Granted, some of them are reasonable laws due to the fact that some things out there will KILL YOU if you do it (hardcore drugs etc. etc.)

If a woman decides that she wants to make money selling her body, that is her choice. She will have to live with any consequences that come with it. So as I see it, people who want prostitution banned on the 'immorality' of it to begin with, just want to see those 'immoral whores' on the street get the punishment they deserve by not being in a safe enviroment to perform their job duties.

As far as physical and mental harm...ANY job has that. Hell, working at Wal-mart for 2 years made me feel like the most scummiest person in the world. Nothing I did for that company was ever right, no matter how hard I busted my ass, sweat dripping off of me at the end of everyday...it wasn't good enough. And dealing with customers? Do you know how demoralizing it is to be yelled at by a hairy fat guy in a wheelchair because he's too damn lazy to get off his fat ass to reach 3 shelves up to get an item? And how it's YOUR fault?

Not everyone lives in a happy go lucky suburban, middle to upper class home. Not everybody has that up-bringing. The worst time in my life was working for that company...does that mean wal-marts across the world should be banned? It hurt me physically and mentally every single day. So therefore, it should be according to your logic.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Eschbach

Legalization of prostitution essentially says, "it's okay to exploit, abuse, misuse, or otherwise injure people, as long as the government get's a percentage of the profits."

Okay, I'm going to let it slide that you COMPLETELY ignored my post, but if you ignore this one, Eschy-boy, then I'll know you're just a selective hearing, self-centered bastard.

In my last post I outlined several ways how working for one retail company just happened to be complete hell for me. No rebuttal from you, however, explaining how the physical and mental stress I went through, was any different any prostitute could have even if it was legalized.

Now, the only address I did not make to my job is how they exploited, and misused their workers. This is how they did that. It's been a long standing 'secret' that everyone who works there for at least half a year comes to know. And that is every year, the managers at wal-mart get a bonus based on how FEW people run the store. I'm not talking about just assistant and department managers either, i'm talking about floor employees.

The managers would get a bonus depending on how few employees they had but still ran the store efficiently. So a department that would, at an given time of the day, need 4 or 5 people to run effectively, we would only have 1 or perhaps 2 people at any time during the day. Sometimes we got lucky and had 3, but we were never fully staffed. Why do you think you see Wal-mart getting sued all the time?

I know a lot of you are thinking "Well, Grail...why didn't you just quit or try and further yourself in the company?" Well, I did. After 3 years of working there I tried to go to 3rd shift for an extra dollar an hour...a week later they fired me on the grounds that for an ENTIRE year I was showing up late and leaving early...with no prior talkings to, or even mention that I was doing such a thing.

But that's the beauty of working in somewhere that's legal...you CAN quit at any time. Some prostitutes, if not most, never have that option. What I find hilarious is that most 'Moral, upstanding citizens' like yourself Esch, tend to be the ones that want to see people continue to suffer the most.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by killerpineapple

People like me need to realize that there are indeed women who willingly become prostitutes and enjoy it. However, nothing written here has convinced me that this industry can exist in a way that doesn't take advantage of women. Even our legalized areas such as Denmark and Las Vegas are plagued with mistreatment and exploitation of sex workers. In a perfect* world perhaps women would be free to go in and out of this line of work in a way that never infringes on their human rights. But that certainly isn't the reality of the industry in today's world.

About a page back I made a few posts about my experiences working at Wal-mart. Go back and read those over before you say that the sex industry is the only industry that takes advantage of its workers. Don't be like that Eshebaun fuck that completely ignored my posts and further tried to prove his point just like you're trying to now.

On top of that:

Quote:

Put succinctly, lots of people dislike prostitution. They don't want their loved ones involved so they extend (force?) this view onto the people they care about: family, friends, community, an entire city, etc, etc, etc.

I'll put it plain and simple. I wouldn't want my loved ones working for any company, or industry, that would put them into a depressed state of mind, or feel physically exhausted in a non-healthy way. That being said, I'd never want my children working at Wal-mart.

The point is, EVERYONE is different. Some people enjoy working for companies just like Wal-mart, and there are others that enjoy spreading their legs/getting their freak on to make a living. The question is, why would society want to keep those people on the streets where they would be in danger, instead in a safe work environment?

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by killerpineapple

Your analogy works on some levels, but prostitution is a radically different industry. I've never said to a friend, "Let's go to Vegas or Amsterdam so I can buy a couch for fifty bucks." I've never heard a girl say, "I wish they'd change the laws here so I can work at a cash register or be a store manager".

I can see where you are coming from on this, but in the long run, prostitution is just like every other single job you see in this country. You use your body and your mind to make money. You are providing a service in which you use any given amount of your five senses to paying customers. How you do it makes no difference at all.

Couches are readily made available to stores all across the country, that's why you never have to go anywhere outside of your town unless you REALLY want a specific couch. Same thing with a strip club, do you ever hear someone say that they need to go states away to see women dance naked? No, you don't.

As for the other analogy, I've never wished for laws to be changed either, but I HAVE wished that there were more colleges nearby that I could train in video game design, BUT, unfortunately there are just more OPPORTUNITIES to be a cashier and manager in my town as it is.

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I must also confess, Grail, that I find some of your arguments confusing. You take great care to illustrate how a legalized industry can still abuse its workers. Then you seem to propose that legalizing prostitution will invariably make it safer. Maybe in a perfect world, but even places where it is legal, prostitutes can and do endure mistreatment on a scale not applicable to even the least fortunate Wal-mart employee.

I'm not too entirely sure what your work history is, but if you are involved in any company where heavy lifting, or mental stress MIGHT be a factor that could hinder your performance, the entire first day of your new job is spent getting information shoved down your throat on 'how to be safe in the work place' and constant help lines to deal with your stress. The only problem is, while these programs are actually beneficial, if you ever EVER have to resort to using them, you usually end up fucking yourself in the end, depending on how, and I'll get to this in a second, corrupt your company is.

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From my research this may not be an inherent fault with the sex industry, but rather that it has a tendency to attract the wrong sort of people. People who corrupt the industry to a point that it becomes as bad as places where it is illegal.

For the most part, people with any position of 'power' so to speak can easily be corrupted. I've had GREAT bosses before, and I've had bosses that can only be described as satanic in every way. What you are trying to say is that the 'wrong kind of people' don't fit into your moral code. The fact of the matter is, legalizing prostitution would make it safer, if even if it was for the simple fact that BOTH PARTIES would be consenting to the act. Sure, said prostitute may have to spread her legs for not the most attractive guy, but at least she knows she's doing it to get paid, and not that she'll end up getting pimp smacked if she doesn't bring her pimp enough money for the night.

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Am I correct Grail, in saying that you wouldn't want your loved ones being prostitutes or wal-mart employees for the exact same reason? Like you, I wouldn't want my kids working in either business. But my reasons for not being a prostitute are different than my reasons for not working at wal-mart.

I'm saying I wouldn't want my loved ones being forced to do back breaking or dangerous work for shitty pay, and even shittier treatment. If my daughter decides that, as an adult, she wants to get paid for spreading her legs for men night after night, I can't do a thing about it. That's her decision and the best thing I can hope for is that at that time, she is in a safe, stable environment in which she can work her craft.

Wouldn't you?

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Originally Posted by killerpineapple

And yes, government regulation would set up the framework for a safer working environment for prostitutes. Unfortunately, even in places where it is legal, people continue to break the law and sex workers are still being mistreated. This is the major reason why half the red-light district in Amsterdam was being shut down. (I haven't followed that story in months, anyone up to date?)

Despite the fact I see that this entire area was your 'final thought' so I don't expect a response, I do hope you realize what you just said above. The Red-Light district, for what I'm to understand, has been around for YEAAAARS and for the most part, due to it's legality has never stirred much controversy other than 'zomg it's prostitution.' But look at what you just said...people are being mistreated, and when the law is broken (when abuse/whatever is brought up) places get shut down...JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER JOB/EMPLOYER IN AMERICA.

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No matter how bad it gets at wal-mart, people aren't going to force you to work without pay. You won't get threatened of physically abused if you choose not to comply. I don't think we should be so quick to legalize prostitution until the places that allow it have fully sorted out their problems with it. (Actually, I don't think we should legalize it ever)

Um...Okay...do you realize that this ENTIRE time we are not talking about legalizing prostitution so that all the pimps in the crib mahn (drop it like its hawt) can have a free ticket to bitch slap their women if they don't bring in enough dough? We are NOT talking about the places right now having a free ride. We are talking about making it legal so that RULES AND REGULATIONS can be instilled for entrepreneurs that WISH to open up brothels/enact in business run prostitution can do so, but have to follow a specific guideline, and rules that apply to human services. Which I will outline in the next part right here:

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The only way I see prostitution infringing on the rights of uninvolved people is the shame it brings on family and friends. It also spreads some disease, there's no denying that...but I haven't seen any statistics on that.

As much as I want to sling insults for this first sentence here, I won't. I just hope you realize how ridiculous that first sentence of yours is, and apologize for it later. Just as Wal-mart can not be held responsible for any 'stigmas' viewed on the people who shop there (generally poor, dirty, nasty people only shop at wal-mart etc. etc.) prostitutes and businesses like that can not be held responsible for any 'shame' that a family feels if their daughter works there.

As for diseases...this just goes to show you that you have never, EVER worked in a place that you are prone to get injured or have the possibility for blood transfusions to take place. If prostitution had OSHA on their side, holy shit...STD's from prostitution would probably see a huge decline...and that is for the simple fact that guidelines and steps WOULD BE (not could be) WOULD BE enforced to minimize the transfer of STDs. This could come in the form of every paying customer needing to produce a clean bill of health (STD free) to always using a condom no matter what the sexual act involved is.

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Likewise, Ponzi schemes only affect those looking to invest money. Nobody is forced to invest. But I still feel it is morally wrong to deceive people that way. Should it be illegal to lie or deceive? or is it just immoral? Hmm, both probably.

The last time I checked, you invested money to make money. The risk is that your investment may not fall through/the people you invest in may not succeed. I believe what you are talking about are when people intentionally steal the money that were invested in them, thus they WILLINGLY took money that wasn't theirs, and that is breaking the law. Nobody is going to force you to go see a prostitute, and unless said prostitute only becomes a prostitute to try and seduce ONE MAN THAT SHE MET ON A BUS ONE DAY into leaving his wife, that is the only situation that I can see a prostitute wanting to deceive, and if it came to that point, there is something wrong with the woman, and not the industry.

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Should it be illegal to have sex for money? Or is it just immoral? We all have our answers to both questions, but the arguments from both sides are strong enough that neither side will earn a clear victory. At least we know what the other side is thinking.

And unfortunately the other side is thinking that despite the fact that if prostitution was legalized, for the most part, that profession would become a safer place, they would still find it 'evil and morally wrong' just due to mostly religious beliefs nowadays (hell back in Greek times it was all the rage, and not frowned on at all), they would rather keep their morality in check and judge people rather than wanting people in a safe, secure location to do what they want to do.

As RR posted above, he'd not want his daughter in prostitution, but woudln't mind if his neighbor daughter did...I'm sure that if said daughter was in that business, he'd still want her to work in a safe environment.

Take a look at it this way Killer...World of Warcraft has caused deaths in the world...a video game has caused deaths. Mainly in Korea, but does that mean that we should ban it? Make it illegal?

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Tamburlaine

Pang, I agree with you completely. I, however, have a problem with ALL exploitative careers. I should hope that in the future both coal mining, industry work, and prostitution can be left behind.

Killer Pineapple got away with this due to the fact that he can actually NOT make himself look like a complete idiot.

Do you know that this god damn country was FOUNDED on fucking jobs like coal mining, industry work and other shit like that? EVERY GOD DAMN JOB in this fucking world is exploitative of their workers. It doesn't matter what the fuck it is.

Work is supposed to be that, WORK. Many, many people have died on the job for various reasons. You keep ignoring the fact that prostitution is just like EVERY OTHER SINGLE JOB IN EXISTENCE. People EXPLOIT prostitutes more because women who work the street regardless of choice, or being forced into it, because it's a lose lose situation for them right now. They can't go to the cops because they will be arrested for prostitution, and if they say they don't want to fucking do it, they get beat or worse the majority of the time.

You can't just close your fucking eyes and pretend that if prostitutes don't exist that the problem will fix itself. You want prostitution to go bye bye? That's perfectly fine and fucking dandy, but how about until it somehow magically disappears, you show a little bit of compassion and WANT them to be in a safer environment instead of looking down at them like they are the lowest rung of scum on societies ladder, you fucking prick.

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I do think, on the other hand, that being a prostitute may subject someone to particular and unique psychological stresses that other professions can't touch. But maybe not.

You are a fucking child. Get the fuck off these forums right now. HIGH SCHOOL produces fucking just as many unique psychological stresses. If a fucking woman (or man) decides that she wants to make money by spreading her legs, and it turns out that she doesn't like it come a month or two into the position, if it is legalized, she can fucking hand in her TWO WEEK NOTICE. That is not how it works right now. She complains, she gets bitch slapped for it.

It's often I find those that 'take the moral high ground' on discussions like these, tend to be the ones that spit on human rights the most. It's sickening.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by killerpineapple

Sex makes everything different. Not always worse, certainly not always better, but different and profoundly so.

I'll have to agree with Pang and ask why?

Let's play a little game of This and That. I'm going to take two physical and mentally straining professions and put them both together. Today our choices are Professional Boxers and Legalized Prostitution.

Boxing: Rough, physical sport that, when sanctioned with laws, are still quite physically harmful and can be mentally deteriorating.

Two men enter a ring, their goal is to knock the other man out, or win by a judges decision if both fighters never go down. They must vigorously train to keep their bodies in top notch shape, only to go out and get the snot beat out of them time and time again. They chose this as their life. They were not forced into doing so.

Mentally it can be straining to have to push your body that hard, never knowing if your next fight is going to be your last, and perhaps even IF you became a famous professional boxer, there is no guarantee that you'll lead a good life, and accidents always happen...you could take a punch and end up paralyzed from the neck down, or worse. There are NO guarantees...and all the while you are doing this, some fat ass boxing organizer, mobsters, and other walks of life are actually BETTING on you to win, and some are even betting against you to lose.

Now for Legalized Prostitution: A physical job that, even with laws that were in place, can be a physical and mentally straining job.

Despite the fact that, for the majority of the nights you are on your back, you still will have to cater to customers who may not be overall appealing to you. There are some risks that there are diseases involved, but that is a risk that, if prostitution was legalized, the person involved MADE CONSENSUALLY.

Every night a woman -could- have the lingering thought in her mind that the man that is paying her could be married...but other than that, she also has to contend with the fact that a lot of people that know her would either look down on her and judge her for what she does.

But, as you can see, both jobs have the employees putting their mind and body on the line. You say Prostitution can hurt people uninvolved? Well, look at people out there who have gambling problems...BOXING can hurt those uninvolved just as much.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Tamburlaine

Many rape victims take a life-time to overcome what can be chalked up to a few moments of sexual intercourse.

And I believe that there are some women out there, that after having been raped, deep down enjoyed the experience. Not because they are a bad person, but because EVERY GOD DAMN PERSON IN THIS WORLD IS DIFFERENT.

Let me say that again.

Every god damn person in this world is different.

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I am all for prostitution in which women have a legitimate choice. As it is in today's society, I feel that many of the women that would resort to it would do so because they have had no other opportunities. I take that to be coercion; Sure, these women wouldn't be RAPED in every sense of the word, but if prostitution is the only profession they can resort to in order to survive you can't really think that they are doing it out of a complete free choice. That is like saying that I give my money willingly when I have a gun pointed to my head.

I thought I told you to grow up and get out of my forums. Do you have ANY idea how many people right now, in this country, are working jobs that they fucking HATE and would love to be doing something they love? I got lucky, after about...six years of working, I finally found a decent job that I enjoy doing. I was unable to get into college because my single mother making 25k a year apparently was TOO MUCH CASH for any financial support.

What you are proposing is that if people were laid off from their jobs, or, that their towns economy is so bad, that you would rather wait and see for the government to do something about it that didn't involve legalizing prostitution. Which in turn, leads me to believe that you would rather see people suffer with no income coming into their home instead of having a safe job where all they have to do is spread their legs.

Can you understand why some people may think you're a heartless bastard? Oh and for the record, there's a pretty decent possibility that I'd never even pay for a prostitute...hell I've only been to a strip club once in my life, and I'm 24 years old. Doesn't mean I don't like the idea of strip clubs, I just never have the urge to go.

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If our government can spend a trillion dollars on the Iraq war, 3 trillion bailing out banks, and another trillion in medicare, then why can it not give better opportunities to these women? Now, once those opportunities are in place, the women can become prostitutes and do whatever they want. I just think that there wouldn't be as many.

Okay, taking this and what you said above that a prostitute would be a 'gun against the head' profession. How do you feel about strippers? In essence they take the same risks as if a legal prostitute would, perhaps even moreso because it's just one big cocktease. A stripper is just another job, same as a waitress, same as a cashier, and if you've never gotten a lap dance, well, those are pretty god damn personal experiences as well. Hell I still remember my first one, was like losing my virginity...cept when I lost my virginity the bitch was disappointing -_-.

Honestly, this conversation has been geared towards women, but men can be prostitutes just as much. This whole argument you have boils down to 'we have to keep the women safe, we have to give them better opportunities, we have to do this we have to do that'. Stop watching the god damn Lifetime channel and grow up. Women don't want YOU to tell them what to do, and as much as this is going to PAIN you to hear, they certainly don't want you deciding what is a good job, and what is a bad job.

Jam it back in, in the dark.