Research suggests men are clueless when it comes to women.

Originally Posted by Denicalis

I've never had a problem understanding women. They're not all that different from men.

For you. I imagine that you "get" women. You know how to deal with them. Why? Because you care to.

I don't think women are complicated at all. Maybe it's because I am a female. Who knows. But I've always thought that if you care to pay attention to patterns and behaviors, you can also "understand" us. Most men don't seem to care about making a genuine effort on the learning bit.

Women often say that MEN are complicated. They're not, if you're willing to communicate, take some extra time to think about a perspective, so on, so forth.

Communication, I suppose, is the most important.

((I've always been a lot better at communicating with men than women. Maybe it has to do with my upbringing and how my mind works. *SHRUG*))

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Managomous

Analyzing body language is impossible. Whatever happened to the notion that everyone is different? So every woman that tosses her hair around me, i'm supposed to realize that she's sending me a signal?

Yea, see, body language is a little more complex than that. Consider conditions, circumstances, whatever is surrounding a situation. (In other words, use your fucking head) Most body language is unnoticed to the person performing the actions.

Just because a woman tosses her hair when she walks by you doesn't mean she wants you. It means she wanted to toss her hair.

Things aren't always so black and white. The sooner you start paying attention, using your head to put the pieces together, and actually give a good goddamn about understanding (instead of plugging your ears and saying LA LA LA), you're not going very far.

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Let's be logical here, if you like someone, tell them the truth. Why play games and hope that person catches on? Isn't that hoping for too much, I mean, we're only human here. Sadly, these are the harsh realities of society today, you either pick up on a signal, or get left behind.

Again, things aren't always so black and white.

For example, in a work place, two people maybe be VERY attracted to each other (and send each other signals), but it would behoove them not to let on that they were seeing each other or what have you.

"Signals," as I guess we're calling them, are not always intentional either.

Hair flips, lip-licking, things like this are often subconscious gestures. It's not like a woman always INTENTIONALLY hair-flips when she thinks it's the right time.

It's all about the subtleties.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Dark Nation

To: Women
From: Men

Subject: If you like us

Body: Dear Women, if you like us and want to date / fuck us, say so. Be blunt, be obvious, Be DIRECT. Your chances of success rise by an average of 75%*

Sincerely,
Men.

*Individual results may vary

Why should we cater to your needs when other men make an actual effort to communicate with us?

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Dark Nation

Because they are not clear, hence my point.

Ever think that the problem isn't necessarily them, but yourself? Maybe?

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Using hand eye coordination and judging where the Bananas are located in a level has NOTHING in common with 'playing' a woman. They are entirely different 'games'. Seducing a woman is a fine art, donkey kong is a juvenile video-game.

I can't believe you just typed a whole paragraph in regards to the implication Deni made.

Seducing a woman is NOT a fucking fine art. Jesus CHRIST, where are you getting these crazy ideas. TALK TO HER. That's about as COMPLICATED AS IT GETS!

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Granted, I get the basic analogy you're trying to make (That if given time and practice you will become better at a skill and that it can apply to any sort of activity, video-games or getting women), but that above is a very poor example. No, I can't think of a better one right now before you ask.

Also, while reading the rest of your response, I realized my own problem as to why I am not very successful: I think too much about how I appear in her eyes, about how she views me. I know this is the problem and you'd think If I knew my problem I could overcome it, but Doing something is a lot different then talking about it.

How about this.

When you interact with a woman you like, treat her the same way you would anyone. Be kind, be friendly, be courteous. Women want to have genuine interaction - they don't want sniveling men who don't know how to communicate to up and rubbing their snot all over them. You need to be confident, and I think that's your major fuck up right there.

Women pick up on "weirdo" behavior. You don't want to be perceived as a weirdo, do you?

Think about how Deni would do it. I imagine Deni would just walk right up to a woman he rather liked, and start a conversation about something with her. That way, both parties get a little insight into what the other person is like.

You're not failing because women "aren't blunt" or "direct." You're failing because you're not communicating as well as you should be.

Put down the goddamn video game controller and TALK TO WOMEN.

You're not ordering a fucking burger at Wendy's, here - why would you expect that kind of "drive-up" communication with a woman?

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Dark Nation

I knew I'd get something like this in response, but I honestly can't think of a witty snappy comeback to that kind of question. I do see my own shortcomings as a part of the problem, but any response I expect people to likely pigeon hole it down to either SHE'S the problem 100% or I'M the problem 100%, and I don't think that's necessarily entirely true. I've made errors before and I'm sure they have too. After all we are but merely human.

Well, I don't know you, so I can't say it's either party's fault with 100% certainty.

I just know that you blaming her for not being direct is you nailing yourself into your own coffin.

We're all human, and not perfect. People fuck up. But don't blame women for not walking right up to you and asking if you want to go out. There's some give and take involved. And that's called "communicating."

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I didn't mean fine art as in a painting or classical music. It was a way to say that compared to the basic skills necessary to play a video game, romancing a woman is a lot more involved and requires a delicate touch, COMPARED to a video game it is LIKE a fine art. Maybe I should have used a different metaphor.

Well, the metaphor is most fitting here. On a gaming forum. On the internet.

I think you see where I am going with it.

But regardless of your very funny metaphor, if you don't have the ability to talk to a woman like she's a glass vase that cracks if you speak too loud, find a more sturdy vase. (what the fuck kind of women are you trying to woo? Maybe your problem is that you're treating them like some kind of delicate flower? I couldn't say. I don't like it when men act differently around me - they're not being genuine if they're pussy-footing.)

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On the second part: You say just Talk to her huh? Well... I've been 'talking' to several women for a while now, but given the lack of intimacy and continued friendly relations (with some flirting here and there), I'm probably saying the wrong thing, aha ha. Ehh but pay it no matter, I get your point. I need to stop over thinking the situation, along with...

Well, again. How are you communicating?

You know that "friend zone?" You're placing yourself there. Most men do without even knowing it. You talk to a woman. Be yourself.

I used to tell a few of my friends who are male and aren't attracted to me (but we're good pals) that they should just pretend the girl they were interested is me. And talk to her like they would talk to me. Casual. Genuine. Honest. Don't treat her like a glass vase. Most of my buddies are usually really, really great people - but they hide underneath a really thick mask for some reason when it comes to women they're attracted to.

Women can sense that. And if you come across as that sort of guy, you get put on the "friends" list.

Be assertive. If you like yourself, you should have no trouble being yourself in front of an attractive female.

I was speaking idiomatically.