art - natural or learned?

I think the acclimation towards ability in art is natural. Sure, you can work your ass off to become good at it, but I personally think talent is embedded in us all, in one form.

You can work to become good at art, music, and all that jive - but some people just have a natural disposition in these regards.

How ya doing, buddy?

Ed, I think you just explained why some are naturals and why some aren't.

Yes, there are people who pick up a pen and pencil and what comes out is flat-out amazing, without any formal education. The powers of observation are enough.

I happen to not be one of these people. I have almost no talent as far as the hand and the pen are concerned, just in case you're about to accuse me of being a mediocre artist. ^_^

I think everyone has something in them which can be regarded as a "talent." In saying that all artists are learned artists, I think you're doing art a major injustice.

Some people are naturally better at it than others. No one is saying an "unnatural" artist can never become a great artist! With hard work, passion, and diligence to ANY TASK, a person can excel.

But there are indeed people out there who can pick up the tools and know what to do with them off the bat. Much like some people who acclimated to music or what have you.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Devoxycontin

How do you determine this? I'd like to know. Because so called "naturals" are usually people who have good-eye coordination and can replicate what they see. That doesn't make them a good artist.

That's the foundation for good talent.

If someone can pick up a pen and paper (or whatever medium you want to chose) and can perform without an education on an impressive level, you have talent.

Do you deny the existence of talent in individuals?

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Devoxycontin

I deny the existence of over-praising work that lacks original composition, form, value and good line work. I was called a "natural" in school before taking art classes but I really wasn't. I could replicate images, which isn't artistic in my opinion. The true artists create original art not just observed art, or they manipulate what's in front of them to create something original. Having good eye-coordination does not an artist-make. People who can draw what's already been made, are possibly a natural at figure drawing or line work, but not a natural at art as a whole.

I agree with you for the most part.

Replicating images is one thing, but some people (myself included) are just no good at it. If you asked me to draw a man holding a rose, I would be able to do it, but not in a way that would be considered "good" - in other words, it would show no real artistic ability. Some people are better at this than others (like anything) - and this can contribute to good artistry.

Hand-eye coordination with the pen in an attempt to depict an interpretation of reality is probably something that would be helpful in having as an artist - but not required, as you said.

There are variables, naturally, which contribute to good artists. How they see, how they interpret, how they use their tools. A whole host of shit. Like a nice chili. It's not chili without some basic ingredients to differentiate it from, say, a HAMBURGER, but you can throw shit in there to make it accommodate what you're trying to accomplish. I hope that metaphor works. I didn't think about it too hard. =/

But some people? They're just damned good at it. They have a bunch of these tools in their head already (hand-eye coordination, unique interpretation skills of what they see, whatever) and this makes a LOVELY mesh of awesome art. Don't you think?

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Devoxycontin

It's very rare that someone will have all of their tools down (composition/figure drawing/value/contrast/line work etc) without schooling or imitating previous masters of art. And that's what I'm driving at. Most art is learned, these so called "naturals" are actually a minority.

O, they definitely are a minority - no argument there at all.

But they certainly exist.

But you're right - most of the artists I come across are learned artists, in one shape or another.

I was speaking idiomatically.