Atheist parents!

Personally, I plan to raise them without religion all together. That includes atheism. Like Capo said, it's something they should personally decide for themselves when they're older - certainly not when they're young children. I may throw in the "some people believe" and try to vary it a lot. But apart from the standard, I see no reason why the paranormal should explain things for my children. Religion won't be a part of their lives until they're older, and only if they chose to accept it.

I hope to instill some critical thinking in my kids instead. Always question, always think.

I DO plan to celebrate Christmas with them. Though it is generally accepted as a religious holiday, Christmas will be celebrated as a seasonal thing. When they get a little older and they have classmates and things (and I am sure I can't protect them from Baby Jesus Brigade), I hope to explain that the holiday season is celebrated by millions of people for different reasons.

I think Easter will just be "celebration of spring and fertility." I mean, what the hell ELSE could the Easter Bunny be good for? Here kids - have some chocolate for dinner! It's Easter!

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Cellius

You consider atheism a religion? I don't. I doubt other atheists do either.

There's a big division in atheists about this. I'm one of those atheists that doesn't believe in anything, including the typical atheistic tagline. (I get angry when atheists want to unify and shit - what is there to unify ON? Poking and prodding at people who HAVE faith? Just as ridiculous as Satanism.)

It's a big, gaping hole where religion usually goes.

Capo may feel that atheism is a religion in a way - and so does my boyfriend. I believe that the lack of a belief is just an absence in a religious faith.

A lot of atheists actually put faith in their lack of faith. It seems counter-intuitive to me, so I don't. Religion or LACK of religion of any kind doesn't have a place in my life. I don't believe in anything and there's nothing to really discuss, you know?

The term "atheist" is just the closest I can get to accurately describing myself in one word. =/ I guess
non-religious" is a good term, but it's a little less aggressive than "atheism." I am kind of militant about non-belief in my life.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by RacinReaver

That's why I usually like the term agnostic better. It seems to have fewer negative connotations. =\

But "agnostic" means something different....?

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Remy_Fortin6

Agnostic means skepticism towards the idea of god.

That was my point. Thanks. -_-

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Devoxycontin

To not believe in god as strongly as a theistic religion does believe in god, pretty much makes Atheism a religion as well. If you'd rather be a part of the group that doesn't profess any certain beliefs, it's best to just be agnostic.

But that implies that you're ambivalent on the whole thing! ;_;

I'm not ambivalent about it. I just don't think there's much to be passionate about! Atheists are really good at being passionate about nothing. =/

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Devoxycontin

I just believe that anyone who claims to have the answers is pushing some agenda on me (read: religion). The existence or non-existence of god isn't what makes or breaks the religion label, it's the agenda pushing, at least in my eyes.

Couldn't agree with you more on that one. I wanted to say that, but I thought it may be misconstrued as something it's not.

And yea, all that stuff about fanaticism. Agree.

But in a way, I think teaching your kids about a religion as though it's a fact or how things "should be perceived as" is, well, kind of fanatic.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Remy_Fortin6

Well, I agree with your position, and I have adopted it myself quite a long time ago. I am still interested in hearing about different religions though, as I feel it to be quite educating in most instances, as religious beliefs, when taken apart from the institutions that promote them, can sometimes propose models in terms of morals that can be interesting. It also helps to understand people from all walks of life to know what it is that they believe in.

Willingly and voluntarily educating yourself about other religions is not "pushing an agenda" at all. I think it's important to be educated about other religions and beliefs. It also lends a greater understanding of the human mind to those who wish to know why people do things and where we stand as a species.

I don't think anyone here would ever imply that education - regardless of subject matter - is a bad thing.

It's funny about some of those zealots, though. You know how they can get. (This includes atheists)

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Remy_Fortin6

So, how does Santa go around the world in one night???

Here's a more interesting debate: do you tell your kids about Santa Claus? I've had this debate with so many people so many times. (I would)

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Remy_Fortin6

That, I honestly don't know. I can't recall having much love for the guy, but I know for a fact that my girlfriend's opinion on it is that we should definitely do it. Then again, I think we should eliminate christmas altogether, so I might be held as having an extreme view on the subject... So I probably would do it, if only for her.

Why eliminate Christmas altogether??

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Remy_Fortin6

Because I feel it has taken a turn for the worst in our society, and that it is a perfect example of needless consumtion. I'm not talking about the vacation aspect of it, simply the part about going out to buy stuff for people while trying to figure out what they want/need, when most of us have pretty much all we need and go buy for ourselves what we want. I'm not suggesting that all of you are rich. I am not rich either. It's just that, in my view, if you want to give something to someone because you feel they would appreciate the said thing or simply because you feel like being nice, by all means do so, and I do that all the time. Buying stuff for someone just because on that specific day you HAVE to give them something or it won't go over well socially I care less for.

While I agree with your ideas about consumerism and needless consumption, I'd hope you'd also find a sense of giving to those in need and generosity in the season.

At the risk of sounding like a sentimental asshole, presents don't make Christmas - the spirit does it for me. Winter, being kind and generous to your neighbor, so on and so forth - this is what I find valuable.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Remy_Fortin6

I agree with being a giving person. I just don't understand why people couldn't just be more considerate year round instead.

You do bring up a good point though, about celebrating the act of giving and all...

No, no, I agree with you. But most people need a special circumstance to feel generous and giving, it seems. (That statement has nothing to do with religion) If Christmas fulfills that basic need, even once a year, I'm happy teaching my kid about it.

Festivus, baby.

Devo, sadly, I do too. I don't save at Christmas. I buy/make presents for people, but I am also unusually generous with my money. I eat out at a restaurant? I leave a 40% tip. I buy a coffee? Leave extra cash. Someone needs help with something, even if they're a stranger? I try to help. Doesn't always have to be cash! =D

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by whinehurst

What is this I hear about you people not telling kids about Santa Claus? What are you, communists? Don't you (those of you who grew up with the Santa) remember how awesome it was to go downstairs at like five thirty in the morning and see all those presents that weren't there before? Don't you remember that feeling, of impossibilities happening? What, are you going to explain every magic trick they see just to suck the joy out of their lives? What kind of heartless person do you have to be to suck the wonderment out of kids?

What do you think will happen if you DO tell them? Exactly the same that happened to you when you found out. Nothing.

I mean, how can you call it misinformation? wha? Do you really deem it necessary to bring the crushing weight of reality down on five year old shoulders? don't you have any respect of the age of innocence and nativity?

shit. i would feel cheated if i never got in on the Santa.

Thats exactly how I feel about it, yes. And you'd be surprised at how many people think the whole Santa Claus thing is "lying" to their kids.

I'll never understand it. Kids have an imagination. Kids won't be crushed when they find out that the fat guy in a red suit was just all pretend. It makes shit more EXCITING for them.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by LordsSword

I worked with a woman who told me of her experience of finding out about Santa.

It still bothered her even at the age of 28. When she was a kid, school kids teased her constantly & with great relish about her belief in Santa.

"At age 28, I am still hurt about Santa not being real." If this is true, I hope the woman you speak of is mentally retarded. Seriously.

I don't think we were talking about fears either, there. Way to pay attention.

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I dont sell Santa because its not useful. Entertaining but not useful.
I dont want to sow seeds of doubt about other things I believe in but cant be seen. For the atheist I suppose the same thing could happen. Dont set your kids up for doubting your convictions later in life.

Kids aren't adults. The mentality that you take as an adult will not be relayed to a child well. They don't understand "useful." Kids aren't going to follow your conviction through life. Kids will grow up, and hopefully, they won't be fucking crushed by a man in a red suit who is a figment of their imagination. Get real.

Kids need a creative environment to flourish. They like to imagine, they like to pretend, and it's a great avenue for them to take in encouraging them to think about the world around them. Yes, magic isn't real. That doesn't mean you shouldn't allow your kids to read Tolkien or Harry Potter books, watch The Neverending Story, or pretend they're a wizard in the backyard playing with imaginary potions. They won't suffer when they grown up - it's a natural process for them to slowly become more acclimated to their environment and the reality of it all.

Encourage your kids to have a sense of imagination and wonder about the world. Don't make them adults right out of the goddamn womb. Imagination begets curiosity and creativity.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

She's sensitive & frail. Everybody reacts differently. I wouldnt want to needlessly expose my kids to the same thing.
There are more important things to deal with.

"Sensitive and frail." I guess that does mean "mildly mentally retarded," huh?

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Nor Santa.
I noticed we moved on to imaginative concepts and their benefits & consequences.

Wow. You aren't a fan of a SAINT? Lollin' over here.

What a horrible thing to teach your kids!

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In ancient history, the people you label as kids ruled nations. Young people are capable of much more than the limits some people place upon them. Role models do make a difference. When I look back I consider the feats of those that went before me to measure myself by.

My son is an adult in training. He knows this. As a spiritual person & artist imagination is the stuff from which I survive on. I teach many things that may not be real to the atheist but because they are real to my kids they preform interesting feats.

Are you going to start preaching in this thread too?

Where is The Lord when we need him.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by LordsSword

Ok, but the laws that we obey are written in books.
Ultimately we align ourselves with the written law because of a respect for the authority that enforces the law.

Recently my kid asked "what if there is no God, what if its a scam?"
I responded with "then I can do what I want as long as the police don't find out. I can be as selfish as I want & I dont have to work on being loving and kind to my family. As long as I am smart enough & strong enough I can do whatever I want."

This revelation caused a look of utter horrer on his face.

The "authority" issue is a heavy deal, I wonder how atheist parents hurdle this one?

I think God is a scam and I'm a good person.

Explain that one away.

(Also, how long does it take you to figure out you're not welcome in a community?)

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by LordsSword

"good person" based on whose definition?

Unlike you, I don't take my good/bad cues from one book.

I take cues from society and from how people would like to be treated. From history, from mistakes, from experience.

Not to pat myself on the back or anything here, but I figure I do a hell of a lot for people out of a hope for humanity. I don't need a book of rules to tell me to be kind to those around me - I figure it's my job as a fucking human being.

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See when you go teaching a kid to be "good" it helps to lay out the parameters, give a moral map to align their course by.

Which doesn't require a book. I dunno. Maybe I'm just more observant than you are.

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The atheist has the challenge of getting this across because of the lack of a guide that is consistent over time.

You don't know jack shit about atheists - why are you making any conclusions about them? They are all very different.

We are our own guide.

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The parent may be a good one but they are not perfect or consistent.
Society isn't either.

You're brainwashing your child, but hey. If you want a robot for a son who doesn't know how to think for himself, more power to you.

Just keep him off my payroll and out of my neighborhood. I appreciate intelligence and critical thinking. Apparently, you don't.

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Once upon a time folks like me were fed to lions and burned at the stake. Time changes view on what is good.

So you just admitted that you're here - at Gamingforce - only to preach, then?

I won't reply to you anymore in this thread. You pretty much troll on these forums to incite religious debates wherever you go. You make a point of doing it, and you pull the whole "I am Christian and you hate me for it - like god said you would!" shit every time.

Learn to back yourself up with thought and critical thinking instead of scripture from a book. Maybe if you tried that, you'd be more welcome in the community.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Traveller87

Perhaps you are a good father, LordSword, nobody here is able to judge that, since we don't know you. It's the arrogance of saying that atheists are necessarily bad parents, which makes you unpopular here.

Apparently, he had a really shitty upbringing with an asshole father who happened to be atheist.

I wonder if he recognizes that his behavior is just him trying to get over his shitty parents.

Jam it back in, in the dark.