Human nature

Originally Posted by Arainach

I think that Human nature is to act in one's best interests. Too many people take that to be "one's best interests even at the cost of other people's interests", leading to evil.

But wait. Don't animals practice the same thing? There are pack animals who need social interaction to function properly and there are loner animals who do not require the interaction among it's own species, but the point remains the same: Do whatever you must to stay alive. Survival of the fittest, man.

I would hope that humans would figure out that in modern day, there isn't really any more "survival of the fittest," unless you consider war a situation wherein it is necessary.

I'm not sure that you can even say getting a job and paying the bills fall under "survival" when it's entirely possible for a person to still live in complete seclusion without these particular means to support themselves.

I also think your idea of "evil" is completely skewed. Animals are not evil, nor are they good. They are neutral, since you know, the idea of "good and bad" are completely fabricated by humans. Animals do what they must. When they kill, it is not necessarily an act of evil - it is the nature of the beast. When an animals feeds upon an innocent, lesser animal, is that also evil? Is it evil when a male lion kills his mate's young?

Are you saying that all living creatures are inherently evil?

Because evolution would disgaree with you~

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Sword Familiar

I thought we were talking about HUMAN nature, but what the heck. :P

Yea, and I made it clear that the nature is not EXCLUSIVE to humans. That was kinda my point, see.

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I'm sure evolution would disagree, but a human being might not.

Try to define "evil" and think of how animals act. They don't ALWAYS act to survive. The cat, for instance, usually plays with it's victims, be it birds or mice, by tossing it around, biting it and putting it's claws into it, before it eventually kills it. Now, if this was done by a human being it would probably be considered torture, and ultimately murder, two things generally defined as "evil". In this sense, even animals can be evil and it is, in fact, a trait they are born with.

Okay, maybe you didn't read what I wrote?

"Good" and "evil" are purely human inventions - black and white lines to live by. Do you think animals are "good" and "evil?" Do you think they sit down and make rules for themselves that are distinct and arbitrary. "Thou shalt not kill thyne fellow tiger, for it is evil?" Fuck no. Those motherfuckers do what they need to, in order to live.

This is my point, buddy. Animals do what they are naturally supposed to do. A cat is a hunter - it should come as no surprise that the cat plays with it's prey. It's not evil for this - it's being a cat.

It's more important (and on topic) here to narrow in on what is the perceived nature of man. And thats easily summed up: He likes to fuck with shit.

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Rape is also common among animals. Gorilla alpha males even rape other males! Is that an act of survival? Well, I guess you could say it is since the alpha male only does it so that he can show the other males that their completely under his control. However, again, say that this was done by a human being, it doesn't necessarily have to be rape, just an act that shows the other threatening parties that you can control them and have your way without them being able to resist, it would probably be considered evil. Dictators do it all the time.

Why are you being dumb. Animals and humans are not the same. Arainach proposed a VERY vague statements which implied indirectly that they ARE, in fact, very similar.

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Saddam Hussein was considered "evil" by the US and was therefore given the ultimate punishment, death (barbaric if you ask me, I don't believe in the "eye for an eye, tooth for tooth" kind of thinking, but that's another story).

Blah blah blah more listening to oneself speak. Saddam thrown in for good measure to make a "hard-hitting" point (which it doesn't, but okay)

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However, I think that "evil" (again, defining evil is hard, but let's say it's an act that is considered wrong by the general public) is a conscious act, and therefore only beings with higher reason power are capable of truly being "evil".

There is no good and evil. It's all in your head. Thats what my point was. The only place good and evil can apply is to humanity. Because humanity made it up to suit it. Just like the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

People feel the need to satiate their emotional discourses. "I killed one of my own kind. How do I make myself feel better?" While it can be argued that animals have a lessened amount of emotion, it is distinctly not as emotional as human beings - nor are they cognisant of making a "right" or "wrong" decision. Much like a criminal or a child, they can only tell "right" and "wrong" by how their decision hinders or improves their lifestyle - not how it makes them FEEL.

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But as I stated before, I don't think we can actually define human nature as "evil" or "good". I mean, we could, but it wouldn't be enough to describe the complexness that is a human.

O god, give it a rest. This is another problem with human beings. They think they're so complicated and so diverse.

We're not. Deal with it. It's attitudes like this that will divide us over petty bullshit. The sooner everyone figures out that we're just another boring species with a quirky survival technique, the better.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by MetheGelfling

The key words there are "modern day." Look at the exponential increase of technological advancements within the last 2,000, hell even 100 years! These advancements have made survival a much easier task than during the stone age. It took many years of evolution to become such great survivors. Those survivial skills like looking out for one's own best interest or seizing and exercising power may take a bit longer to disappear from human nature. They may begin to disappear as survival isn't quite as difficult given modern technology. In the mean time, our innate will to survive on a primal scale may still influence our actions and emotions and might be considered "evil" depending on your cultural frame of reference.

This will be the death of humanity. I hope you realize that. Our sloth and our undying need to manipulate the world around us to suit our needs will backfire on all of us.

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Would it be more fair to say that most living creatures are impartial survivors?

They're not IMPARTIAL, thats for certain. Animals will fight tooth and nail to survive. Animals will throw caution to the wind when trying to survive - something that we humans will resort to in our last dying moments.

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