Certified Certification, anyone?

In all honesty, I would first aim for the company you want to impress before getting any certifications. I dove in to community college right after highschool to pursue the MCSE, A+, NET+, CNE, even the stupid MOUS. I ended up having to dedicate a lot of time for the MCSE, only to see the cost of taking the tests, and the cert expires every four years anyways. I was working for all the certs I could get, but every company I ended up applying for wanted a college education first, then certs on top of that. There are jobs that only require an A+ or a NET+, but don't expect to make so much dough on that stuff. I ended up getting an associates degree in Information Systems/Technology, and I never bothered with taking the tests for the certs.

Now, as for my homegirl Shawna, she left highschool with the intention of working for Namco in Chicago. Namco told her to get a double masters in Graphic Design and (somthing else, I forget). She went to Columbia Community College of Chicago, got her stuff, but before she could submit her resume, Nintendo of America knocked on her door with a job offer. She makes uber amounts of dough as a lead game tester.

Now if you really just want to turn over dough without wasting the time of going to college, learn how to fix Macs. It may sound like something out of left field, but my buddy Dave charges $120 per hour fixing Macs. He can charge so much for the six years of experience under his belt, but diving in now would be better than later.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by TonyDaTigger

Spend $1400 in building a 3 pc lab to simulate domain environment, and another 500 in books. Add in another $1000 for examinations. Around 3k for certifications and practical knowledge that goes with it.

and of course the certification expires in 4 years. My MCSE in NT4 isn't worth much nowadays with 2003 and Vista on the horizon isnt it? Microsoft itself doesnt even cancel out the certification - the industry does it.

The A+ and Network+ never expires. However, I was tested on TOKEN RING when I took it originally. I really doubt that bus and ring networking toplogies apply today.

I really want to shake TDT's hand. I was shy to come out and say it, but dude is absolutely right. I was told back in 2001 just when I finished up my Windows Server 2000 course that, to get my MCSE, there were seven certification tests to take. Each test cost at least $1000 a piece, and the grand total was about $15,000. Every four years after that, you need to recertify at the same cost. I went to community college so I wouldn't have to pay more than $2000 for a solid education, so of course I stopped my trek for the MCSE or even the MCSA right then and there.

As for my A+ and Net+ pursuits, I read the books and took a couple classes to prepare myself, but then I realized that those certs never expire. If an employer hires you just because you have a cert in something that never expires, you are going to have suckers who specialize in DOS 2.5 and 8088 chipsets. Unless you want help connecting to your BBS with your analog modem, their knowledge is completely obsolete. If they would require recertifications every four years, you could eliminate all the dinosaurs and the crammers.

It's just really fusturating to know that some employers really do value these certs when you know you're really getting screwed for it.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by TonyDaTigger

Each test cost $100 to take? If you are saying that's how much the training cost ($1000 each) how is that a slap against the MCSE? First, $10,000 is a whole lot more than what I've seen for full classes. Second, Microsoft doesn't force you to attend these classes. It's like saying the GMAT cost $8,000 which is blatently false. The test itself is $150. However you educate yourself to achieve it is totally on you.

Actually, what I was told was the cert tests each cost over $1000 to take, failure or not. I also was told that their were seven tests to take total. To top it all off, the total cost of the full on certification would be about $15,000. I am getting this info from two separate people in 2001, and if they are both wrong, then I apologize.

Originally Posted by TonyDaTigger

It is also not true that you pay the same cost. Microsoft has always had a upgrade path to recertify in the latest operating systems. You had to have 6 exams to certify in NT4. I took special upgrade exams that only required 3 exams to upgrade to 2000. Books plus test cost a total of $600 or so for me. It was only ONE more test to recertify from 2000 to 2003.

I'm happy to know that Microsoft does offer recert paths that are cheaper. I was never informed of this.

Originally Posted by TonyDaTigger

Well, I certified myself in A+ in 1997. If I have been working since then, employers can safely assume that my knowledge has been updated through practical experience. If you took the cert, sat on it for a few years and then got a job later then your knowledge relevency can be questioned.

I dig it if you get certified and keep up with current technology. I salute that. On the other hand, I have seen dudes who wave their 10 year old A+ cert around who have never used an OS beyond Win98. I have also seen dudes who are only worth the paper their names are written on. My former classmate Sanjay would play videogames in class while I was installing SCSI devices on 486s (for all you critics, despite popular belief, it is possible to run SCSI devices on 486s, but I highly don't recommend it). I saw this guy cram using my manuals and interviews with people who just got certified. He never took apart a computer in his life, but he took the test, and passed. I'm not getting certified, or Microsoft, but I do have something against those who cheapen the value of a cert. Please don't get me wrong, I know these people wouldn't last a day in the real business world, but as a business man myself, if I hire a dud, I lose faith in who educated them. I know better than to blame a reputable cert for a bad employee, but not all employers know what certs are reputable.

Originally Posted by TonyDaTigger

You don't have to be screwed to get certified. Every post I am making here is dispelling false statements. I mean come on, who can rightfully complain that if they got certified in Vista next year that it would expire 4 years after that?
The price of being in MIS/IT is that you must keep pace with technology. It's the same with programming. If you are a Cobol expert, save for limited cases you are worthless in today's C/PHP/JAVA world.

People somehow hate Microsoft enough to not look at their certs objectively and fairly.

I do understand where you are coming from Fatt but there are better ways to slap 10k down to take classes and get certified and still wonder if you got any useful information that makes you hirable.

Are you still looking into working or getting certified in IT Fatt? I'll be more than happy to help you put together an affordable lab environment down to the free 30 day eval versions of all Microsoft O/S software. I know that no one pays for M$ stuff anyways but its out there for the 1% of the pop who buys all their software.

It urks me that you say COBOL. I actually know COBOL, and it makes me want to die . On the other hand, learning COBOL helped me to pick up SQL and MS Access/Excel much easier than my classmates, so it wasn't a complete waste.

The classes for the MCSE, plus books, cost me roughly $1200 at Oakton Community College. I only got as far as getting certified for the MCSA, but I quit after hearing the costs.

I decided not to go for the A+ because I kept failing the WinNT practice exam. We never really covered much of the NT part, as I had more fun breaking computers and electrocuting myself. Remember kids, for your own good, don't take power supplies apart. If it works, it works. If it don't, don't fix it, just toss it.

I never got my Net+ because I couldn't find anybody who offered it at the time. That and I was too lazy to really look hard anyways, as I hardly saw any businesses who recognized a Net+ (most assumed that if you have an A+, you should have networking experience to back it up).

In the end, I got my degree to show my nervous clients that I have some solid education in something. I run a small business that does technology consulting and database/website development. I looked for a job for four years in my fields of expertise, and through my search, very few companies I saw honor even some major certs. Even MCSEs are expected to have a few years experience before being offered a real job. I decided if no job want's me, I'll make my own.

The bottom line is, I can only recommend getting a cert if you know a company that will hire you because of the cert. Most companies will want to see some type of portfolio or track record or list of contracts to show your experience in the field before they want to see your education or certs. This doesn't mean you shouldn't get certified! Just know what you are getting in to!

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

This is great stuff. I'm really happy to see more participate.

I have another question. Is there a Novell cert, and how expensive is it? I know there has to be a Novell cert out there, but I never bothered to look in to it.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

This thread is fantastic, because I get humiliated back and fourth, and I'm loving every moment of it. I really love all the clarification I'm getting. I'd rather be lied to by a million people and told the truth once, rather than lied to by ten people and never being told the truth. I also love how I thought the CCNE and the CNE were both the same thing. For the record, I was pursuing my CCNE, but not my CNE.

As for the SCSI on the 486, I could set up a slave hard drive via SCSI, but I couldn't set up the master hard drive on the SCSI card. We researched it online, and all we could find was the 486 architecture did not support SCSI devices. I thought it was pretty fruitless that we, the people paying for a class, were working on 486s while the Linux club was given Pentium IIIs, but my college is all about payoffs and favors anyhow.

Now a new question! What Macintosh certs are out there? I never got in to the Mac stuff, but that is a huge industry that is hardly tapped.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by PUG1911

I can't say for sure, but I thought the later generation MAUs would detect these issues, broadcast a notification that the 'stuck' token was dead, and reissue one. Not sure though. I just love the idea of not having to be concerned about packet collision ever. But that's just a personal thing, it likely wouldn't have any real world advantage these days, but I'd sure love to play with one.

I remember those old token ring networks being faster than the 100baseT networks, but I haven't seen anybody support them since 2002. The only major problem was the cost of the infrastructure. It really wouldn't surprise me if some businesses that rarely upgrade still use token ring in their systems. Banks, government branches, hospitals, and universities may just want to eat the high cost of upkeep just for that extra speed and reliability. It's not unheard of.

Originally Posted by PUG1911

I wouldn't take an Apple cert. unless it was paid for by an employer. I'd love to do it, but I can't imagine it being a worthwhile cert. to have ahead of time. It's just such a limited market, and any place hiring an Apple tech. will expect them to know their stuff, but not expect them to be certified. It'd just be unrealistic.

I do a lot of contract scouting, and I see a lot of Mac based contracts out there. I pass them to Dave for a 10% finders fee, and he usually makes $120/hr servicing Macs, so I figure there has to be a Mac cert of some sort out there.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?