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[Classic] Old games are great, don't forget
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Django!
I'm a little pimp with my hair gassed back


Member 23557

Level 8.57

Jul 2007


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Old Dec 28, 2007, 01:34 PM #1 of 66
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The thing is, while game graphics keep getting more detailed and complex (I won't say better), the gameplay has hardly evolved to meet up.
It hasn't? Out of nostalgia and boredom here at work, I recently played Doom and Quake online. Both of them were complete shit, had horrible balancing and speed issues, no voice chat for teams to collaborate on a strategy, and a severe lack of game types. There's also the fact that you actually can't aim in Doom.

This is after coming down from long stretches of Call of Duty 4 multiplayer where me and my clan can discuss strategy before, after, and during the game, use multiple player types on multiple different maps that often require varying degrees of strategy to keep the upper hand.

And we really shouldn't forget at how well integrated online matchmaking is in some games. Or that hardware has the ability to factor in things like realistic physics, lighting, and the damn coriolis effect.

I'm not exactly sure what your idea of "evolved gameplay" constitutes, but to this long time gamer, I much prefer today's offerings over games a decade old.

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Sorry to say, I don't have the interest or attention span or time for 40+ hour games anymore, so my older games see lots of action...In some cases, ones I've replayed for years without getting tired of. I just want to plunk in a quarter or press start (preferably 5 seconds or less after hitting power) and just fucking PLAY! No storyline, no overblown characters I'll end up not caring about anyway, no tutorials explaining the retarded control schemes...Just give me stuff to shoot and collect and a Dpad/A/B buttons to do it with. It's amazing how much good time I had/have with...uh, Sqoon* than I'd have with 99% of what's out on PS3/360 and probably Wii. And I've said before...I think one of the reasons Guitar Hero is so big right now is people just pick up, play a couple songs, and go do something else.
Is it possible that you're just not playing the right games? I think one of the Wii's biggest selling points (and criticisms) is the availability of the dozens of "pick up and play" styled games. It's not a very accurate estimate to say that new consoles lack an arcadey experience when the most popular console has an overabundance of quick shot titles and the competition have platforms for small, short, pick up and play games. All three systems cater to that gametype in some what, especially the Wii since you can download all of those old games anyway.

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Funniest part is...My NES games probably look better now than I ever thought they did in the past. 8-bit cityscapes are <3. Think the only generation whose graphics bother me are the 32/64 bit era and that was because 3D games looked like ass on all of them (the 2D stuff was sweet).
This I heartedly agree with. Lots of developers got 3D right, but most 3D games on the 32 bit systems were down right ugly.

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Newer games aren't all like old ones. You never see side scrolling beat em ups anymore and fighting games play nothing like they did in 2D.
Thankfully we still have side scrolling beat'em ups and 2D fighters still in development.

I'd like to take this moment, though, to present the argument that:

A> Most side scrolling Beat Em Ups were complete toss.

B> Fighting games are a genre that will polarize fans anyway. Personally, I'd take Virtua Fighter over any of them.

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The thing is, while game graphics keep getting more detailed and complex (I won't say better)
Why wouldn't you say "better"? Doom looked better than Wolfenstein, Link to the Past looked better than Legend of Zelda, Duke Nukem looked better than Doom, Minish Cap looks better than Link to the Past, and Mario Galaxy looks a hell of a lot better than Mario 64.

Unless you're confusing "art direction" with advancements in graphics, but that's more of a fallacy than a talking point.

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Not that I mind new games, no. I don't remember when was the last time I'd had as much fun and intrigue with games as I did with Portal, FFXII or say, Penumbra Overture..
It would be pretty dumb to say that someone couldn't enjoy both new games and old. If you can't remember the last time that you enjoyed a game as much as Portal, then why the nostalgia? You said gameplay hasn't caught up with graphics, but then you bring up Portal, a game that would have largely been impossible on previous systems.

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So what would a next generation game be to you then, Q? ((QUESTIONS, AGAIN)) I think a lot of those "old conventions" we reference can't go away so easily, because they're fundamental to video games. But I'm curious, again.
Pretty much, yeah. A shooter is always going to feel like a shooter, a fighter is always gonna feel like a fighter, and an FPS is always gonna feel like an FPS. Of course, you'll have developers that do something interesting within each game type (Senko no Ronde, Smash Brothers, Portal respectively).

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PSP as a potential purchase in the near future.
Do you think this is a good idea? The main selling point of the PSP is "a portable Playstation". If you aren't a big fan of 3D graphics, I can't think of too much to like on the PSP, outside of puzzle games.

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Something else that I think is hurting modern games is the overemphasis on cutscenes.
Definitely a big agree here. Can't play most JRPGs because of. I also hate infinite superfluous dialog. Advance Wars DS is a great game, but I couldn't play it because no one would ever shut up.

I think my final point overall is that a game is a game. People can use the same complaints about old games versus new and apply it to anything. Chess Go/Igo has the same gameplay as any tactical game on the NES or SNES, so a fan of a board game could easily dismiss videogames as self indulgent messes. Hell, most DnD fans I know do.

These discussions always remind me of my music studies. People said Jazz was dead. Then Free Jazz came along. People said that Jazz was dead. Then Miles Davis entered his electronic era. It's all circumstantial and largely irrelevant. There's never going to be any great leaps in gameplay because it's all still firmly rooted with it's origins, but to contrast, saying that gameplay hasn't evolved isn't correct because there's plenty of things to point at to say that it has.

EDIT

Also, I think some are forgetting the Wii and the DS. Two pieces of hardware specifically developed to ignore trends in graphical capability in favor of different styles of gameplay and interactivity.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Last edited by Django!; Dec 28, 2007 at 02:23 PM.
Django!
I'm a little pimp with my hair gassed back


Member 23557

Level 8.57

Jul 2007


Reply With Quote
Old Dec 28, 2007, 01:48 PM #2 of 66
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Nice collection you got there. Just wondering, have you beat them all?
Hope not. He's got some real junk in there.

There's nowhere I can't reach.
Django!
I'm a little pimp with my hair gassed back


Member 23557

Level 8.57

Jul 2007


Reply With Quote
Old Dec 29, 2007, 03:08 AM #3 of 66
I enjoyed it, but it was short and easy in addition to offering me nothing I haven't already experienced. I really wish they'd put some serious effort into a new platformer (an original one!) but as I said, it's rare these days.
The Battle Mode was tits.

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It is definitely one of those games that makes a 'safe' game like Final Fantasy X seem uninspired.
Hey, now you're talkin.

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I just prefer to get away from the whole "games as art" mentality
That's dandy and all, and I agree with you to an extent, but that doesn't mean one should make sweeping comments about entire libraries of titles. I have a certain nostalgic attachment to the game's of my childhood (I have a freakin Ness tattoo), but I find tons of impressive, artistic, qualities in tons of games I play presently. That's why I love Mass Effect ant BioShock so much. Both of them have some gameplay faults, but both really did achieve the level of sophistication, presentation wise, that the developers aimed for.

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you know, where you feel obligated to see what the game has to offer, even during totally dead periods
I was chatting with a friend a few days ago about something similar. Gamer Points/Achievements being implemented and used to artificially extend playtime came up as a topic.

Through it all, though, I'm just not ready to resign and say that imagination is out. There's always developers that I can count on.

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I really loathed CC (other than the wonderful ost)
Seconded, in both regards.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.
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