[Album] FINAL FANTASY XII Original Soundtrack (SVWC-7351~54)

I'm only through the first disc so far in listening (had to collapse last night afterwards, but the rest shall be listened to this morning!) but so far this is brilliant work. Definately Sakimoto's best and most diverse soundtrack on just the first 1/4. I'll be sure to post a much more complete review once I've finished listening to it all 5 hours of music, sheesh!

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I finished listening to the whole thing earlier this morning, and I'm definately sold. My early impressions remain, that it's an amazing soundtrack. Full review still coming (I plan to do it track-by-track).

I think one thing I'd like to add to the discussion however, is that there are many more elements of music other than melodies that a composer can utilize to create attraction and memoribility. Two of the biggest factors in Sakimoto's personal style and music are those of interesting rhythmic figures and ways to use interesting chord progressions to take a melody and twist it into many different connotations. He does this masterfully with the three main themes used in FFXII, also blending in a good dose of atonal wandering and thematic uses of instruments (such as relating esper-related music with the choir, and certain less-orchestral instruments with the "primitive" races).

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by garthvadr3

You know, I really do like Sakimoto's composition however, I think the reason it sometimes does not sound that interesting is because it is being held back by synth instruments. His style of writing does not shine unless performed with a real symphony orchestra. Just listen to the track "abyss" and imagine it with real instruments, and then just think about how much the midi instruments, or synth or whatever they are using is holding the composition back. It is too intricate and requires individual performers nuance to make his writing sound "right". This is where I think Hamauzu shines in FFX, he can manipulate synth and midi and write for it so that it sounds natural.

Abyss wasn't written by Sakimoto, it's by Hayato Masuto. In general, Masuto's tracks used much less quality samples than Sakimoto's tracks it seems.

Personally, I found the sample quality to be exceptional with just a few duds. The velocity change between the "soft" and "brassy" on the French Horn section always is very rough and often tinny. Additionally, there's one or two notes in the Harp sample set that are more plucked and buzzy than they should be.

The woodwinds and strings, however, are almost always top notch, especially the solo Clarinet and Flute samples. The percussion when used is also very nice. The choir samples, whenever they show up, either as the "classical choir" or the "ethnic choir" sound very cool.

I don't know why this is a battle between Sakimoto and Hamauzu. They're both very talented composers with very different styles. People prefer one or the other. I love both, but have a stronger affinity towards Sakimoto since his direction is usually where my own writing leads me.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by garthvadr3

Yea I guess you're right. I didn't check the ID3 tags Either way this soundtrack would have benefitted from more real players. There's just no substitute for it. You can take pretty much every track and find places where it sounds dull because the composition doesn't shine on synth instruments. Imagine listening to a Mahler symphony on midi. You know what I mean? This is why I really was captivated by the FF12 opening cut scene music (which was played by a live orchestra), but when the next track came up I felt compelled to press the skip button.

Fair enough. I will agree that there's no substitution for live instruments and orchestra when you're dealing with such. However, given the massive ammounts of music that's here (just under 5 hours), it would have been impossible to do the whole soundtrack live (without having a recording budget the size of, something really big.)

There's also certain things that you're able to do when dealing with digital audio as opposed to live recordings. This doesn't apply to FFXII, but for example in Vagrant Story.. you're able to have a dynamic cutscene background that can transition seamlessly into looping battle music and then back into more cutscene, with hit points as soon as you advance the dialogue, as done in the opening sequence.

Additionally, and this is from personal experience, but when you're working with an orchestral palette that you know won't be performed live, you have the freedom to try things that wouldn't necissarily be playable in reality.

So could there have been more live tracks? Yes, definately. They could have, in my opinion, cut Symphonic Poem Hope from the budget entirely and relegated those funds to recording more of Sakimoto's pieces. However, I don't think the quality is so bad that they render their composition and effectiveness null.

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Originally Posted by Spatula

For those of you who've got the first press, what bonus items do you get? I know about the 28 page book and the special cover. What else? I just ordered and I've got a feeling won't get the first press. ;__;

A shiny box, really. The 28 page booklet isn't anything special, just the concept renders we've seen many times over along with photos, a statement by Sakimoto, and a conversation between him and the other composers on the album.

And thanks, Veq Appreciated.

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Well, the thing about the "love themes" in previous FF titles is that they always had some sort of role in the storyline as well. (Excluding FFX's, which just played during the underwater makeout scene.) In FF8, the love theme debut, it was the song Julia wrote for Laguna, which translated into Squall and Rinoa's love since it was a relationship they never had. In FFIX, it was a song that Garnet always sang. So, I guess, there wouldn't be as much impact with a song that probably isn't involved in the storyline (debunk me if I'm wrong), as well as one that doesn't show up anywhere else in the soundtrack as a main theme. It was mainly the producers saying hey we need to retain some ammount of tradition with an Uematsu love song.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I'm not certain that it's a commercial library. The woodwinds often sound like whatever Jeremy Soule uses though, which may or may not be EWQL or VSL. I personally use EWQL Gold, and get pretty similar results, so it's possible. Some of the tracks sound a little lesser in quality though, so it may be a mixture of things.

FELIPE NO

Aye, I own several libraries legit. Not the one he linked, though. The standalone Gold is much less. It's still pricy, but worth it, if you're aiming to make a living at it

I don't want to drag this thread too off-topic though.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Cheezeman3000

You guys... the string sounds in this soundtrack are of a fairly low quality IMO. The only good sounds come from the lower strings, and even those aren't that great... the high strings are painfully bad! And the oboes/clarinets are tinny-sounding... you can get better sounds from Reason! I don't know why people are so amazed at the synths.

I personally think the issue has less to do with the samples themselves and the lack of using many articulations of said samples.

Quote:

Edit: However the BRASS and PERCUSSION are excellent! Probably the best sounds I've heard in a long time. It's too bad that the more important string and woodwind sounds are... lacking in every aspect.

It's easy to do really good brass and percussion because when they're used in this soundtrack, it's usually for a purpose: to be somewhat agressive and punchy. If you have good punchy brass and percussion samples, you're golden in that respect. Even Vagrant Story on the PS1 had excelent brass and percussion synths, and that wasn't pre-recorded audio. Strings and woodwinds on the other hand require lots of meticulous articulation work if you want to get them to sound especially realistic and alive.

Quote:

Edit #2: In case you would like a comparison between the FFXII synths and MODERN-day synths (in other words, what SHOULD be used in such a high-profile game as Final Fantasy), I have uploaded a sample song from the Vienna Symphonic Library. Click here to get the file.
So, why didn't Sakimoto use these sounds? They're readily available (I have access to them and I'm a lowly college student). Thoughts?

Well, let me say, the sample you provided is excelent sample operation. However, I'm taking a guess by saying that it was created with the full ~$5,000 VSL, and probably took more time to mock up than at least a dozen tracks combined on this OST. Now, there's a line one has to draw somewhere. If Sakimoto had to do this whole soundtrack in his own home studio, which was the case, he had to work with what he's got, and probably under a high time constraint. Given those factors, I'm not surprised at the quality, and regardless appreciate how good it sounds because of the strength of the composition.

Here's an example of something realistically put together in one's own hypothetical home studio after about 3 days of work using a modern sample library (well, several.) You don't have to like it, but I think it's a more realistic approximation of how things could sound using a relatively accessable library. And you'll notice, not too different. (Though the orchestral thing doesn't start until after halfway through.)

So, anyways, I think the debate over synth quality is silly. (Especially because they're not synths anymore, despite all the technical talk about synth operators.) As Piccolo said, what we should really be discussing is the music

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Understandable, considering the quantity of music compared to other games that streamed redbook tracks. That would probably explain why they used Sonic Implants strings as well. They're less harsh when it comes to using their sounds when stored internally and used by sequence. EWQL tends to get really uppity when it comes to using their sounds in any other way than a redbook recording.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Reverb will always be a subjective thing. There's also a difference between using it generally to apply ambiance, as well as proper mixing of it to simulate a virtual location.

One of the differences I noticed from the PSF version of the soundtrack to this OST version, is that the mix on the PSF was all done with generic ambiance reverb. It's slapped on either via the audio engine or the samples' release trails and often gives a generic ambiance that we're used to in sequenced music. What's apparent on the OST version is that the instruments are mixed for depth as well, in that the ratio of wet vs. dry sound is different depending on where that instrument would be sitting in a room. While this adds to realism, it also adds more size to the virtual space and hence the reverb. Additionally, some instruments aren't as well-mixed as others and tend to pop through in a grating manner at times. All in all, it's a tricky business trying to create a virtual space, especially one that can fool our ears succesfully while at the same time fooling our ears still with the instrument sample quality.

And simply, regarding the repetition, it's been done a lot lately in RPG soundtracks to, actually, provide variety. What other games have done in the past is simply use one track for one theme and keep bringing it back over and over again when it's necissary. By having the composer write variations on the theme, that element can keep coming back but under different guises and have different connotations. Such as the tracks Coexistance labeled "Imperial Ver." and "Liberation Army Ver." - They take a similar piece, and then thread the imperial or rebellion themes into it so as to relate better to the scenario. Just one example of many

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.