[Wii] The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess Discussion Thread

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But the point is that he was clear and 3D.

Basically.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

It's hard for me really to compare the old and the new without checking out the same locations in both styles. Personally, I feel that the old twilight world is pretty cool and stylish, but could have gotten somewhat tiresome after a while what with the lack of colors. The new twilight world a bit more artistically evocative, allowing for a sort of Ico-esque too-bright look that can be pretty neat and surreal.

If they showed the same stormy tower area that the original trailer showed, but in the new twilight world style, I'd probably have a more concrete opinion.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Bow is mapped to the B trigger now. Once to pull it out, then again to fire. Shooting is done in an over-the-shoulder view instead of first-person.

Source is IGN's recent vids of Twilight Princess in action at the Wii event.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I er, avoided this thread like the plague while playing through to avoid spoilers Finally beat it tonight, bloody awesome.

I personally enjoyed the last few temples for their atmosphere and items and such, though yeah they weren't as challenging as they could have been.

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Getting dual clawshots and ninja'ing it up all over the place was so much fun. I also loved the Spinner, though I wish it was used more after the temple in which you recieve it.

I've finally broken the gender barrier on my avatar/sig combos, because Midna's just that cool.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Spoiler:

Ganon likely was aiming for Hyrule no matter what due to his past experiences. Zelda just happened to be there in her shell-like state (since she had partially melded with Midna to save her life), and with his twilight power absorbed from that world he could clearly possess her and have more power over the region. Since it was pretty obvious the townspeople had no idea what was going on.

As far as emotion's concerned, a lot of the game wasn't necessarily saving Hyrule, since once you restore the light to the twilight-induced world it's only the 3rd dungeon. From then on, Midna sort of takes front seat with Link helping her take back the realm of twilight. All the experiences with the Ordon kids, Ilia, and Midna were really well-done I thought, but a lot was front-loaded. Once you get past the Gerudo Desert temple and your sort of final mission is set forth, it becomes the equivilant of say forming the triforce to get to Ganon. Except that in this case, you're forming the mirror of twilight to get to Midna's home and liberate it from Zant's power... which in turn grants Midna with the fused shadows that Zant stole after the 3rd temple, which lets you get into Hyrule Castle for the showdown with Ganon.

Not once did I really feel the flow awkward or rushed... It's just that the game for temples 5-7 reverts back to classic Zelda format, whereas 1-4 had a ton of exposition between each major location.

I was speaking idiomatically.

I'm of the opinion that they were indeed predictable, but I noticed something while getting through them... First off, I recall some of the challenging fights from OoT. Most of them had a similar style of "figure out the boss' weak point with the item you just got". However, a lot of the bosses in OoT required more hits to take them out. And they got more challenging as they got dwindled down. This is the case with some of the TP bosses, but they almost all follow the 3 hits rule. Most of the later OoT bosses were something along the lines of 7 hits.

Yet in the end, a lot of the bosses were still enjoyable due to what they involved, to me anyways. The music was constantly keeping me totally enthralled Even the minibosses had their own score, with each phase of the fight getting its own accompaniment. I honestly have never experienced boss fights quite like them aurally, (SotC comes close, but it uses crossfades as opposed to dynamically changing midi-cued pieces) and really hope more games do similar things

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For a good deal of the game after I got the move... I defeated everything I could with Mortal Strike/Blow/whatever Of course, then they throw armored things at you that can't be taken down with it. But it was rather satisfying

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Before I start, Cel, I just want to clarify that I'm totally on your side in the battle for more MIDI-sequenced music in games. However, I just wanted to point out a few inaccuracies in your argument.

Originally Posted by Cellius

Orchestral music is extremely inefficient in video games.

A bold statement, considering that a large number of AAA titles are using orchestral soundtracks these days.

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One, obviously, the considerable expense of hiring and recording a professional large orchestra. If fans are going to be satisfied with orchestral music, they're not going to settle for a small ensemble to convey Zelda.

A large orchestra was hired for a trailer video, so I'm sure if they wanted to they could have recorded the in-game orchestral pieces with one as well. The price is often worth the time when compared to the lengthy process of tweaking a digital mockup of an orchestra to sound as lifelike as possible, when a real one can do so by simply playing well. One consideration though is orchestration. If the composer doesn't know this well, they have to hire an orchestrator which could either A) change the style of composition entirely, or B) Cost more than the budget is willing combined with the Orchestra/recording session itself.

I should also point out that a minority of the TP soundtrack uses a full orchestra Most are pretty small ensembles or ambiance-related. It's just the cutscenes and Hyrule Field where it gets really orchestral.

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Space considerations. Audio takes up space. If you want a full, live orchestral score, you need to allow for it, which means other aspects of the game need to be cut down. Things like, oh I don't know, LENGTH? Not to mention any part of the graphical engine. If you're storing MIDI samples in the system's hardware itself, this isn't an issue (I'm not saying all the MIDI samples are stored in system, but I'd be willing to be some are).

This is a non-issue for most current gen games. A vast majority have used redbook audio with the DVD format (even if it's not live recordings), and with new higher-quantity storage it'll be even more open for experimentation. That's of course not to say that they've all done such amazing adaptive music that TP accomplished.

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Examples of dynamic music.

All these are excellent examples of how exactly TP's music shines and how MIDI programming is the medium of great game soundtracks.

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This is impossible with bulky audio files that are fixed and static.

Not true, actually. It can be done, but it hasn't been done with the same amount of grace and fluidity that TP accomplished. Shadow of the Colossus, for example, used dynamic music with a full orchestral score. However, instead of midi triggers, it used dynamic crossfades to go between layers of a piece with no consideration of beat or phrase.

A PC MMO, Vanguard, uses redbook dynamic music to a really interesting degree as well. Instead of having large chunks of music like SotC, all of its pieces are split up into phrases of the piece in each individual instrument. The playback system then chooses which layers to play depending on what's going on. If you're idling around, the ambient parts will play. If you start traveling and adventuring around, the percussion parts will pick up as well as a melody and harmonies and such. If you enter battle, since it's all based on phrases of music, it will go into the battle layers dynamically and transition out with the flow of the music. And this is all done with .ogg files, redbook audio streamed through the playback system. It's on PC, sure, but I don't think it'll be long before disc-based media will be able to use a similar technology allowing for even more creative uses of dynamic music playback.

Originally Posted by PsychoJosh

Bullshit. The Final Fantasies, as far as I know, have orchestrated music in them and look how long they are.

Nope. None of the FF games have had a full orchestral score to date (they're all midi or sample driven). Only opening and endings, with a few assorted pieces here and there with live recordings.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?