[Multiplatform] Burger King of Fighters XII - Free with large Whopper meal

Originally Posted by evilboris

SF3 was very fast

No disrespect, but you must live in Bizarro World. Street Fighter 3 by itself or in comparison to other fighters is fairly slow. The only slower fighting game I could think of is maybe Guilty Gear if you banned dashing and running.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Better to have and not need than to need and not have in the case of Street Fighter 3.

Most amazing jew boots

Originally Posted by Nall

make XII a lot more technical than the previous KoF stuff.

Exactly what would you change, Nall? I don't mean to put you on blast, I realize this sentiment is frowned upon, but what Manny Biggz said is correct. The question being, do you play competitively? It isn't a question meant to discredit you, I just feel like there's a certain perspective involved. When people talk about how great Street Fighter 3 is, I laugh. Most Street Fighter players, they only play 3 because it was the last game Capcom made from the ground up. Things that made Street Fighter 2 great just don't work anymore on a fundamental level in Street Fighter 3. The game isn't bad, but I think the people who hold it to this god like standard don't quite understand why the game has the reputation it does.

Anyway, I think what I mainly want to address is what I quoted you on... The problem most KoFs face is that the roster has always been constantly changing. Street Fighter and other games have the advantage of dealing with a consistent roster. Yes, you have regulars in every King of Fighters game, but they are constantly being changed along with having new characters constantly being introduced. SNK has the burden of having to make that work, and you'll take note that most of the time, new characters are either really horrible or REALLY good. Vanessa in KoF 2000, Duo Lon in KoF 2003... There's a reason KoF 1998 and KoF 2002 are generally the most played out of most KoF fans. It worked once and then they just applied the same formula.

A lot of what I say has been pulled from greater minds at other forums, but I feel that it bears repeating. We need to forward that knowledge of the game so that people can learn to appreciate and play these games even better. The problem with KoF isn't balance, or any fighting game for that matter. If you want a perfectly balanced fighter, every character has to be exactly the same. That's balance. That's also what we might call "boring." Characters are going to have disadvantages, aren't going to be as good at one thing as another, they'll have advantages in some instances... the main thing you want to have is variety. That's right. Broken characters don't "tip the balance", they destroy VARIETY. What I mean by that is, if you want to win in a game that has a broken character... who are you more than likely going to pick? The character with the stupid good abilities or joe shmoe? Great example, Tekken 4. Namco took a lot of risks with that game... but Jin Kazama owns that competitive field, save for a few people who really excel at other characters.

For what KoF is, the game is fine, though there is the occasional sour note. Exactly what needs to be added on, what needs to be changed? I'm really curious as to what you want to do with the game.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Nall

Actually, no, I don't play competitively, so if I'm off-base with some things this'd be the reason. I've followed some tournies, sure, but I understand it's a far cry from actually playing in them so nothing I'm saying should be taken as an expert source. Take this as sort of a "casual" player's perspective.

First, I love KoF. As a matter of fact, I've played just about every game in the series from start to finish just so I could see all those cool endings and fight those insane last bosses first hand. If any game has ever come close to beating SFII at it's game, it would be any of the KoFs in their hey-day. One issue I had with gameplay, though, was a lack of fluidness to some of the moves. Sometimes attacks felt stiff, while others seemed to come out slower than seemingly intended. What the video for KoFXII shows me is that several moves might be sped up or adjusted for a different feel or response. It's just an aesthetic thing, but when you compare moves like Benimaru's spiral kick (^D+K) to Dhalsim's head screw in SF, Beni's seems slower in both start-up and execution, and has less control. I know, I know, they're two different games running on different engines, but Dhalsim's just seems more... responsive. I'm not talking Guilty Gear levels of speed and fluidity, but I've always been more of a fan of how Capcom handled their game physics (is that the right word? I'm not sure what jargon to use without sounding like a doofus, if it isn't already too late for that). To put it another way, compare Kyo's repeating punches (QCF+P x3) in KoF 2002/03 to the same move in Capcom Vs. SNK 2. The Capcom version seems to respond much better to player input, and is generally easier to perform, while the KoF version, while fitting within the constraints of that game, is somewhat stiffer.

I know you're not belittling me or anything, but If I'm wrong here don't hesitate to point it out. I'm not trying to sound like I'm bashing the gameplay of KoF entirely, but I think and engine change would do the series some good. The new KoF has me excited that some of these things are going to change, so I'm looking forward to it.

As Capcom games have progressed, Capcom has gone out of their way to make moves progressively easier to perform. Buffering, negative edge, easing the allowed frames for input... KoF has its own distinct feel in comparison to Capcom games because Capcom allows for certain things that KoF doesn't. Moreover, the animation in CVS2 has the benefit of being slightly more fluid, so there's another reason. A Dragon Punch in Street Fighter 3 is a lot less demanding than a Dragon Punch in Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo. Fact of life there, playing both games gives you an idea for the feel of why... knowing how Capcom dished out and set the play systems is where you get the complete truth of "why" that is.

Understanding the systems, why things are the way they are... it's a whole different ball game, and much more intensive than the "theory fighting" that most people do on message boards. I've been there, and I can admit now, I don't know all the whys but I can at least spot someone who doesn't and step in.

Benimaru isn't going to have the same properties as Dhalsim as far as their respective aerial attacks are concerned because they're in different games. Games that are fundamentally different in areas. KoF has a very offensive swing to it, as does Guilty Gear... I tend to feel Street Fighter highlights a stronger sense of strategy and space controlling. I'm not exactly an expert at fighting games either, but I've learned a lot more playing them with other human beings with the intent to win than just playing them with people who don't know what they're doing.

http://www.ggpo.net <-- Your best friend.

Ahem, anyway, endorsement over! I like how KoF feels in comparison to CVS2 as a personal preference thing. Mostly because I like the pace because it's more familiar to me, though CVS2 can be just as intense, it's really just a preference for "feel." The more you play a game, the better you get, the better able you are to tell what is legitimately irritating and what isn't.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

I think the problem is kind of two fold. Like any interest, hardcore players aren't always represented by the best of people. That and there are people who just don't understand that losing is very much a part of competing, as they peel back the layers to a game and come to understand it, questions arise.

"Is this worth my time?"

"Do I really like this game as much as I used to, now that I see how it's played?"

"Is it even possible for me to be capable of playing beyond where I'm at now?"

A lot of players answer "no." I think we'd have a lot more "Yes" answers if the methods behind these games were made more accessible, more transparent. Knowing how to play the game would help keep players who have interest going and striving to be better.

Anyway... King of Fighters XII is pretty, yes... but I'm really doubtful as to whether or not it'll snag new and dedicated players that aren't already fighting game fans. Guilty Gear X looked absolutely stunning for its time... that isn't exactly a giant hit here in the states. Moreover, the whole understanding the game is just a testament to how much of a niche market fighting games are. They require dedication, require practice, research, constant dedication... but at the end of the day, they're all video games and some people just don't have that kind of desire or interest. Understandable.

Still, I think that there's a long way to go in realizing that there's more to a fighting game than the aesthetics. And there's more to the "experience" than just the flashy stuff surrounding the game.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Best believe, I want KoF XII to have some kind of online component when it's released.

((You know, trash talking is a part of the experience... but I can't describe the feeling I get when I beat a person who has been owning me for so long. That measure of progress just can't be beat as you just completely surpass a person who didn't think anything about you. And if you think about it, that 10 dollars worth of tokens is just another investment. It's funny to see how many high level players literally have their skills bought and paid for, heh.))

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

You started it, man.

FELIPE NO

Famitsu KoF XII Systems Explanation and Screenshots

SNK-CAPCOM.com SNK Gallery :: King of Fighters XII: High Resolution Pix from Famitsu's Website

These are the latest shots of the game, and goddamn does it look amazing.

Edit: Just so you know, the second link's description appears exactly as I pasted it. The shots aren't Halo 3 hueg rezolushun type pictures, so don't kill the messenger on this one.

Originally Posted by TRIEU

Famitsu Details KOF XII Gameplay
The latest issue of Famitsu magazine has detailed the gameplay system for KOF XII, with some new screenshots and feedback from the development team.

Source: mmcafe.com from Spoonman

Go to this link to read more: KOF XII Article/Discussion

According to Famitsu magazine, SNK Playmore JP is doing a location test for KOF XII in April, just one month away, but this may change as the printing of the magazine is normally two months before release, so the dates still need to be confirmed by SNKP JP.

Obviously, we expect more characters to show up in the game, which at the time of the Famitsu report, did not note, probably due to the early stage of development.

From what we've heard, here are some additional characters that are expected to be in the game, but of course, the total line up of how many characters is unknown at this time :

Raiden (not Big Bear)
Ryo
Robert Garcia
Andy (looking like a thug)
Keith (from Matrimelee)

Let's just say that the animation of each and every character will just awe you, as well as the game play system. We wouldn't comment on this blindly, so just take our word for it and when it's released, you'll most likely agree that KOF XII will be the fighter to beat in 2008.

Update 3.20.08 Famitsu has just uploaded the original KOF XII High Res. images on their website:

KOF XII Famitsu High Resolution Shots

Side Note: At GDC 2008, I had the pleasure of meeting the Director of SNK, Mr. Soichiro Hosoya. He was describing the artistic style that was used in KOF XII. (Hopefully I am explaining this correctly). The amount of hard work and time that is put into creating KOF XII is much more time consuming than creating a full 3-D character. In KOF XII, to create a 3-D effect while maintaining the true 2-D aspects of the gameplay, each frame has to be hand drawn, unlike a polygon model which, one textured, is rendered on the fly and takes less time to produce. The unique characteristics of KOF XII is that each character uses a 3-D model as a guide (to hand draw in the shades) for the artist to painstakingly draw each frame over it . What this does is give the 'sprite' a 3-D effect instead of an image that looks flat (e.g. Guilty Gear sprites).

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

First link is for those of you who will "WTF" toward Athena's current look. Of all the nostalgia nods to make, they choose "Psycho Soldier" Athena. Anyway, there's your news fix, pulled from High Voltage Online.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ho_Soldier.png

Originally Posted by Shin ATproof

If I read the article right...
- Clean hits show characters have specific animations for high/mid, low and overhead attacks.
- The game uses real-time lighting effects
- More characters will be announced/shown during the first playtests at Namba and Akiba this April.

So SNKP is really putting some serious effort in the graphics...
I really hope the gameplay is as good as this game looks.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

chato: I was wondering if someone still cared, the information just hit GAF and I caught glimpse of stuff through Highervoltage.

Frankly, someone already theorized we're seeing more information on the game now that Street Fighter IV's major hype has slowed a bit. SNK was on the verge of losing my interest and they come out with this location test/picture set finally. Good move on their part.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Hopefully? Whoa, Karasu, slow your role a bit! We're not exactly looking at expert players and it's gonna be difficult to draw any final conclusion as to how the game is going to play when there are things blatantly missing from this build, which clearly ISN'T FINAL. This is basically just to get the public reminded of the fact that the game does exist and is coming. Though it will more than likely not be in the near future given the development that's being put into the game.

The slower movement would definitely stem from players, mainly the gaming press, not knowing the game and the slower gameplay itself to possibly highlight the greater detail of animation put into the game.

Edit: OUTSPONDED BY CHATO!

Hey, chato, if you play GGPO or 2DF, let me know.

-----------------------------------------

Shamelessly taken from Ultima at Highervoltage:

Originally Posted by Ultima

I can't watch vid until I go home.

I'm loling at everyone's reactions to Ralf on various forums:

"It's like Ralf ate Alex"

"ralf look like big momma from shock troopers!"

"Didn't know Franco Bash started cosplaying as Ralf."

"Insanoflex does wonders."

re: new art style

As with Ralf, Leona also looks like the got ran through a Falcoon filter - she's far too waifish now.

I think part of the problem here is that we were expecting HD versions of classic characters, with maybe some new details thrown in. While we're getting that (see Robert), they're also subtely (and in the case of Ralf, not so subtlely) redesigning the characters, which wasn't really expected. And not just with a new costumes either. Terry's basically OG Terry, but now his pants are melting and he's bulked up to Ralf's old size, while Ralf has gone up to Insanoflex size. And Athena has become a pudgy school girl who almost looks out of place because her style is mor exaggerated than the otehrs.

As I said before, I wouldn't say any of this is bad. It's just... really unexpected. I would have thought, since they're likely going to be stuck with these sprites for the next ten years, they would have been a little more conservative in their redesigns, but oh well. I'm sure people will get used to it, especially if it looks good in motion.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Karasu

Its not the players im looking at, its the animation of the characters. It looks slower to me than XI's or prior KoFs. Plus the interface. And I never gave a final impression, I gave a first impression as to what I think so far, which is not that stunned but willing to let the game grow and get out of it's beta shell.

If the final product plays well, I'm sure we can forgive it. I remember the flak Street Fighter IV was catching early on with a few aesthetic decisions. Like child rapist face on Ryu, as well as the slow speed of the overall game. It's a concern, but I guess I'd argue for it being understandable at this point.

And you're right, it wasn't final, my bad on that.

While I did say that, I would have rather implied and meant that it's just early for a heavy judgment like that. Not necessarily final, but something that could stick a bit too well given the stage of development and what we're seeing.

chato:

2DF FreePlay

Not quite as good as GGPO, but there's a large selection of games and the netcode is still fairly comparable to what GGPO offers. I'm currently practicing my DP in Super Turbo, but I tried getting some interest going for GGPO in the Multiplayer subforum and it went to shit. Bleh.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

The only thing confirmed is Big Bear/Raiden from this poster:



Also taken from Highervoltage:

Originally Posted by Vincent Draconis

They work. But for convenience, I reupped the videos.

Leona: MediaFire / MegaUpload
Terry: MediaFire / MegaUpload

Love Terry readjusting his hat after each Crackshot.

I was speaking idiomatically.

THESE PAGES MOVE SO FAST THOUGH

And no Tizoc? But we HAVE to see this in action:



What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

A good presentation is all the game needs, whether it's from a story or from great splash-page like transitions is up to you. To be honest, I'm just hoping there's good online play, because if not, it severely limits my interest in the game. I'd sooner have competition than story in a fighting game.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Skexis

I hope they retired Mai for good.

Get the fuck out.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Skexis

I'd hate for wapanese thirteen year olds

But then what would you have to get self-righteous about?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Pangalin

"I hope the character composed entirely of ambulatory boobs doesn't come back!"

"FUCK YOU I LOVE AMBULATORY BOOB-CHAN."

"But... she's just an ambulatory boob, there's no reason to—"

"YOU CAN NEVER UNDERSTAND MY HEART."

You done trying to falsify an argument for me, Pang?

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I'm not though, though the whole "We're on a message board" thing would go without saying, leave it to Pang!

Mai's a good character, decent rushdown. Especially in Real Bout. I realize you guys want to get harped up on design, but a decent character is a decent character. You guys sound like the people who want E Honda out of Street Fighter cause he's "just a fat sumo."

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Most fighting game designs are hilariously generic. In the end, we could have stick figures throwing shit at each other with the properly designated hit boxes and it'd work just as well. But "misplaced nostalgia", as you call it, is what that character is about. There's no arguing that she's some brilliant character design, it'd just be as gay to strike her from the record to appease some noncommittal faggot rather than keep all parties who play equally happy. There's a niche, she fills it, and at the end of the day you're only bothered by the skin rather than the core game itself. If you want to remove context from a video game, go right ahead, I doubt you have anything meaningful to say about it other than trying to score points on the wit scale over a comment that wasn't even about that.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Oh fuck off, Pang. You knew what you wanted to do the instant your fingers hit the keyboard. Again, what's your fucking point? To insert a more aesthetically pleasing character over one with an established history in the franchise? Like that's gonna happen with anyone in SNK or Capcom from the 1980s. You're no more going to remove Mai Shiranui from SNK than you are Michael Jordan from the Chicago Bulls' highlight reels. Saying she's a stereotype is hilarious considering the time she came out and the medium she's in. Good luck revising history.

Quote:

Well, theoretically, if you could replace Honda with a character who played similarly but didn't have a hilariously generic design, why not?

Where does that say "improve?" Tell me what "replace" says about improving visual design of the exact character? I went with what you said, not with what you might have "meant." I realize trying to manipulate what I fucking say is clever as you try to call me out on doing the same thing, but telling me to place you on ignore takes the gay to a whole 'nother level for you.

KoF XII is full of SNK nostalgia. From resetting Kyo's gameplay back to his 94 roots, to putting Terry back in his Fatal Fury digs and Athena/Kensou into their Psycho Soldier outfits. Yes, Mai's design is your generic anime ninja, but she's been around long enough that removing her from the series would be a nice exercise in gay. Seriously, your whole argument here stems on looking down at enthusiasts that what they enjoy. What's the point in that? You think Harry Potter fans don't know that what they like boils down basic fantasy archetypes penned by a wordy hack? Yes, curse them tasteless fans. So much will come of that. Is there really a point to that other than establishing your noncommittal ass wants a different character in a game you'll probably only play for 3 months? Good luck. Mai's not going anywhere and expecting her to disappear out of some principle is hilarious.

You're not wrong that Mai is just a big walking set of mammaries, just unnecessarily gay about what should come of that regarding her place in the franchise. You know, going on 20 years.

I was speaking idiomatically.

God, Infernal, haven't you looked at the America stage already? It's already got fat people doing jigglin' and eating pizza and having an obese ol' time.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?