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Random question on God
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JackyBoy
A Cinnamon Role?


Member 2219

Level 13.14

Mar 2006


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Old Jul 20, 2007, 06:58 PM #1 of 74
Come to my used car lot baby I have a deal for you! He had better hope his God isn't the omniscient kind that will easily see through his deception. False witness is something He gets quite cranky about too from what I understand.

I'm not very worried at all in coming face to face with God should he exist. Afterall, his fan club keep telling me how loving he is. Surely God can find it in his capacious heart to forgive me for just simply being honest and unable to find it in my capacity to believe something without sufficient evidence.

Jam it back in, in the dark.
JackyBoy
A Cinnamon Role?


Member 2219

Level 13.14

Mar 2006


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Old Jul 23, 2007, 12:54 PM #2 of 74
Responses such as that convince me more and more what people claim to believe is quite a bit different than what people actually believe. They think they believe, they want to believe the metaphysical claims of the bible. But it's just not possible to really, really believe it. I think most of the religious are under the influence of Pascal. How can they not be when it seemingly appears to be such a profitable transaction. Providing they get the sprinkle of water and spend their Sunday afternoon in church an exception will be made when they pass on. Exactly as he said, why take the chance? Of course I don't believe this nonsense! But if I at least feign belief my mind/soul will survive my death. People will fall for that.

There's nowhere I can't reach.
JackyBoy
A Cinnamon Role?


Member 2219

Level 13.14

Mar 2006


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Old Jul 24, 2007, 08:11 PM #3 of 74
win

Those born in a family of faith do tend to believe in their "heart" and really believe they believe the nonsense of the bible. But what good is a belief if it does not correspond with reality? Consider what it means to believe a given proposition. A belief is clearly a linguistic representation concerning a state of the universe. If the brain has conquered anything it is the ability to differentiate a belief from a hope. I can hope I have won the lottery. This represents a possible state of the universe. However, it only becomes a possible representation once I have secured a ticket. But believing I have won the lottery is the only thing which opens the floodgate of emotions appropriate to actually having won the lottery. Yet what could be said of my mental faculties if I have not won the lottery but continue to believe I have? Simply believing I am a lottery winner does not change my financial situation unless it happens to be true. When we believe a given proposition as a truth statement, we are making our best effort to map our thoughts onto reality. This is why we have phrases such as ‘wishful thinking’ for when the validity of our beliefs do not connect with reality.

Either God is the perfect creator of the universe or He is not. If it is the case that it is the latter, then it would seem to place roughly 2 billion Christians in a very awkward situation indeed. In the fullness of time there really will be a winner to this debate since logic demands it. If it turns out there is a God who has a plan for me, then all I have is the simple task of revising my beliefs to gain new knowledge about the universe. If it ever becomes demonstratively shown however that there is no God, am I expected to see 2 billion Christians suddenly become atheists? This is unlikely. What then would it say about the mental faculties of those Christians who continue to believe something which is not true?

Notice that Christianity, with all of its fantastically false claims about the universe, actually goes much further. It says, you as an individual, have the ability to change reality through belief. In other words, if only you are willing to believe Jesus died on the cross you can change the destination of your soul once it separates from the body after death. Since sin is original to our species, something none of us are able to evade, our soul from the moment of conception is destined for Hell. But providing you surrender your self-respect and providing you praise and adore a celestial being that has only done his job in creating you, you are able to avoid a very unpleasant place you rightly belong and instead find yourself welcomed into Heaven.

Now you understand what I mean when I say it is just not possible to believe this. And anyone who claims to is simply not being intellectually honest.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

You're staring at me like I just asked you what the fucking square root of something.
JackyBoy
A Cinnamon Role?


Member 2219

Level 13.14

Mar 2006


Reply With Quote
Old Jul 25, 2007, 05:46 PM #4 of 74
If a given proposition is true, it is true by virtue, not because we believe it. If this is merely a debate concerning the reliability of faith and reason then reason wins by default. We would have not got this far in the pages of history without it. If on the other hand you mean to tell me that the concept of the afterlife rests solely inside the realm of faith which reason can never hope to explain, then no I won't have that. Either there is life beyond the grave or there isn't. If there is, then that is a matter of truth not a matter of faith. If you also mean to tell me that among all things we must have faith in God to be granted access to this divine afterlife, then no I won't have that either. You have a great deal of work ahead if you want to convince me that Heaven and the afterlife only reveals its path to those who have jetisoned logic and reason and replaced skepticism with blind faith.

The human brain is no longer confined to shadows in the cave. We need to have more respect for ourselves than this. I hope I am making myself clear.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

You're staring at me like I just asked you what the fucking square root of something.

Last edited by JackyBoy; Jul 25, 2007 at 05:53 PM.
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