[General Discussion] Can video games be considered art?

The question is rather simple: Do you think games are a legitimatly be consider art? How do they compare against other form of legitimate artistic expression? What are the best examples of games as an artistic medium? Does art require completely static authorial control to be art? And so on in that fashion.

Gamepoltics had on good article on this yesterday: http://gamepolitics.livejournal.com/357698.html

I could write a rather much lengthier post on this but for now I’ll just focus on describing the difference between art, artistic and free speech. In my opinion:

Speech: both legall and in a more generall sene ultimately boils down this: The medium as a whole has the capacity to convey a message (be it political, entrainment, informational or raw emotional invocation) that can be clear understood by it audience. Games clearly meet this test are protect speech but being protect speech does not mean it art or even artistic.

Art: art convey a message (and thus all art is free speech, but not all free speech is art) but goes beyond merely coveys art attempts to apply human intelligence and craftsmanship to the message. Art is about how the message is delivered. In art how the message is delivered matters just as much if not more then the message it self. To this end is the medium of games capable are capable of being art, but this does not mean that all games are art (even thou all games are free speech) or even that any game has become art, merely that the potential exists.. It is also a medium in it infancy games are still just copying movies and are not full exploring the unique potential that lies in an interactive medium.

The biggest counter to game being art is that game requires player control while serious art demand authorial control. I believe that the interaction games provide does not diminish authorial control over the message being conveyed and most intelligent critics at the least recognizes that games require craftsman’s ship to create. All the choice you have in any given game are dictated by the author you explore the choice the author has decided to give you. That fact that you are given a choice doesn’t diminish the fact that all you see and experience is as such because the author wanted you to have those options.

Artistic: artistic is basically just craftsman ship with out a recognizable message. My chair and my car both have elements of good craftsman ship but without a message In this respect all games are artistic

Ok I’ve babbled on long enough, just thought defining what art and some related concepts are too me would be beneficial, your free to disagree with my definition (will technically you can’t disagree with what the legal definition of speech is, since it is expletively written down and such, you can disagree with weather games meet the definition but I rather not take this thread in legal direction, it included mainly as a point of reference)

Ok that my opinion what yours.

Jam it back in, in the dark.