[Album] The Metal Thread! (The Zombie Edition)

Niki's joke reminds me of Ozzy whining about how he has to make a huge tour to make money now, because his latest album sold like crap - because of, of course, illegal downloading, and not just because no one cares anymore.
As if he lacked money.... and worse yet, according to Wikipedia it turns out that Black Rain debuted at #3 on some top 200 chart, and is one of his fastest selling album ever. What an hypocritical douchebag.

Originally Posted by Zorro

Okay, this I understand. I was afraid it was about this self-important elitist shit many metalheads are into. If it's about commercial success that turns a band on its head - I hear you.

Yeah, that's the thing a lot of people seem to misunderstand about the so-called elitists: that they inherently hate what's popular. I have been around a lot of elitist douchebags that make even me seem like the most open-minded art fag ever, but other than a handful of kvlt kiddies I haven't really met anyone who hates bands just because they're popular, or who liked bands but started hating them only once they got popular. In truth, if it looks like it, it's probably because bands that start to suck at the same time as they gain popularity just happens so bloody often that it can scarcely be called a coincidence. Some would argue that they always sucked (and I might not entirely disagree, and would in fact agree 100% on some of those but they all have become worse and worse) but bands like In Flames, Nightwish, Children of Bodom, Opeth, Cradle of Filth, Blind Guardian, Iced Earth, Samael, and of course the ubiquitous Metallica, Megadeth, Sepultura or Slayer, are fine examples of this phenomenon. Of course, in some cases it might have nothing to do with popularity and just be a result of a lack of creativity (I strongly suspect this is the case with Blind Guardian and Iced Earth, though I have admittedly little evidence) that coincides with raising popularity... who knows.

On an unrelated note, does anyone have the new Witchcraft uploaded anywhere, by any chance? Thanks for the Arkona album too, Niki, I dig it. I even liked that ambient outro - very cool atmosphere.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Zorro

I'm in no position to disagree since this is your personal experience. However, I know my share of narrow-minded metalheads who do exactly what you described. Of course they deny that it's just because of the sudden popularity of band X or the like, but I get the feeling it is. Maybe you're one of those, too, maybe I am one of those, too, who's to say?

Considering I still like Therion and Finntroll, that's doubtful. :P

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What I'm saying is that I'd be inclined to agree with you on half of the bands you listed, and I'd disagree on the other half. The popularity argument is effective if it's a huge popularity - the kind that involves the cover of the Rolling Stone for years, stretch limos, regular features on prime-time TV and all that crap, stuff that does fuck up an ego. But Iced Earth and Blind Guardian, for example? The way I see it, that's Schaffer's and Kürsch's going it alone, respectively. Samael? Popular? In this case we define popularity differently. I'd agree in a heartbeat on Metallica, Megadeth or Sepultura, though.

Well, popularity is relative. 10 years ago, few people really knew who Blind Guardian and Iced Earth were, but now a lot of kiddies worship them. None of them have appeared on Rolling Stone or rode limos that I know of, but for a bunch of formerly underground metal bands who used to play in small clubs, they now sell out much larger venues (for example, in 1999 Iced Earth played in Montreal in a small bar in front of at best 500 people, but in 2002 they not only sold out a much larger concert hall, it was overbooked, at over 2000 people - a 400% increase in attendance in just 3 years).
While they are still light years from being Metallica or even Megadeth, it's still a significant increase in popularity for them.

To be frank I'm not sure about Samael's status. Unlike the others I don't have numbers but I strongly suspect that Reign of Light or Solar Soul sells a hell of a lot more than Blood Ritual - call it a hunch :P. Then again, I wouldn't be surprised if Samael just decided to "change direction" and "experiment". It's just saddens me that they turned to such complete shit. And I even thought Eternal was ok!
Reminds me of an anecdote at Wacken. We were waiting for a band and the speakers were playing music in the meantime, as is typical of concerts. Then this techno-industrial kind of rock starts to play, and I was reminded of bands like Oomph (another German Rammstein clone) somehow being on the Wacken bill two years ago. I turn to my boyfriend and say, "great, instead of playing metal they're playing some crappy Rammstein clone or something... I bet that's Oomph or something." He nods absently and says "yeah, sucks." Then he stops, and bursts out laughing. When I ask, he says "in fact, uh... yeah, that's actually a Samael song". Me:

*sigh* Hard to believe the same guys released Blood Ritual and Ceremony of Opposites...

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Originally Posted by DarkLink2135

Wow! What a strange coincidence! Two bands that play exceptionally good, well-written, well-thought out music gained popularity over a period of 10 years, and are now...gasp...more popular!

Is it just me, or is it cool to like shitty bands/music that never go anywhere?

Did you, like, miss the context of this post entirely (you know, the discussion we've been having for the past few posts), or are you just a retarded douchebag who missed the point completely and tried to be witty with petty sarcasm?

Either way, fuck off.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by RAZGRIZ-3

If you are able to read she said several times that she doesn't dislike something because it gets popular, but there is an alarming correlation between a band becoming popular and their sound changing in a way that alienates a lot of their older fans. If you can't hear that in some of the examples given I don't even know what to say.

Don't worry, he's apparently stuck in an infinite feedback loop. Basically, it goes like this:

Me: *rants a bit about popularity in general*
Him: Stop being such an elitist! *use of petty sarcasm to illustrate (lack of) point*
Me: No. I don't hate bands because they are popular. I just happen to hate a lot of bands (not all) that do become popular and am basically observing a pattern. There is a crucial, significant difference.
Him: Blah blah blah omg elitist blah blah blah

Well, something like that, anyway. But I'm bored, so I'll actually bother replying. Woe is me.

Originally Posted by DarkLink2135

She doesn't need to rationalize her taste in music. It's already pretty damn good, at least in most people's opinion, as far as I can see.

You fail at reading. I'm not rationalizing a damn thing.

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Bands become popular because they play exceptional music that appeals to a lot of people.

Yeah, Justin Timberlake sure is "exceptional".

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I don't stop liking bands because their fans are a bunch of slovering morons.

I wouldn't still like the old Slayer albums if I did that, and it's a well-known fact that Slayer fans are the second dumbest creatures on Earth after Pantera fans. No one here advocated this position so you are knocking down a strawman.

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And that's all I'm really seeing here. Maybe it's not cool to like Blind Guardian anymore in the eyes of "true" metal fans, but I still don't give a fuck - they're my favorite band, and it's because I like them, not because of some cultural popular movement.

Ah, it all makes sense now. I lumped your favourite band among the "bands that are getting worse lately" category, so your vagina itches. Got it.

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I'm tired of seeing people complain about band popularity, and it's even worse when they try to package it up as something else. Does anyone else think it's GOOD that metal is moving more 'mainstream' so to speak? That good bands are getting popular with people? That more people are listening to metal, driving up the demand for more bands, more stuff to hear?

I don't see it as neither a good nor a bad thing. "More stuff to hear" isn't a good thing if all it does is increase the number of trend-following, boring clones.

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I don't agree with the standpoint that there's a oft-occurring correlation between a band getting popular and that band starting to suck.

It's called experience.

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Might it be that bands change sound simply because that's the direction they want to take? Maybe they get popular because they've changed sounds?

Yeah, except I addressed those already. Oh, right, failure at reading... carry on.

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Bands aren't always entirely about the money, but you don't keep doing something that doesn't feed you or maintain your equipment.

Actually most bands do not live off their music. So yeah, plenty of people DO continue.

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Morrigan thinks I'm an ass, and she's probably right, I think she's an elitist who can't admit it, that's not going to change with another 10 pages worth of filth plugging up an otherwise perfectly good thread.

LOL. I have acknowledged my elitism plenty of times already. But my elitism isn't about popularity, it's about quality. I have little tolerance for mediocrity, that's all.

<rant>
The best example of this I can find is of Iced Earth at Wacken this summer: they played Stormrider ("OMG THE RIFFS DUUUUUDE "), and then followed with a new song ("....z..z.z.zzz.... mmm wha..?" no badass riffs, no balls, just a plodding attempt at a melody that had neither build-up nor anything of interest). The contrast was so staggering that I wanted to cry (allow me an hyperbole for a bit). My boyfriend and I just looked at each others at the same time, and both shook our heads helplessly wondering what happened. Some say that Schaffer lost his creativity long ago, but I actually liked Horror Show, so go figure.
</rant>

Originally Posted by niki

If you calm down and go back to reading her whole post, you'll see she wasn't saying anything negative about Blind Guardian or Iced Earth. Relax ~

In truth, I kinda was. *ducks* I don't hate the bands, but I find their last two (respectively) to be quite, quite disappointing. On the other hand, Nightfall in Middle-Earth (one of their "later" albums) and Horror Show are pretty damn awesome. Seeing as the new Demons & Wizards was also near coma-inducing, I'll chalk it up to Hansi & Schaffer to be running out of ideas.

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Also, omfg so many concerts coming to France. Finntroll in december of course, but also that one I think Morrigan would particularly like:

http://cernunnos.lesacteursdelombre.com

And finally:
Ensiferum at Élysée Montmartre (Paris) on 9 Apr 2008 &ndash; Last.fm

It isnt announced anywhere else but on last.fm though so I'm wary ...

First link doesn't work for me. Second one has UTF-8 issues apparently, and yeah, it does look mighty suspicious.
But speaking of Ensiferum, I'm seeing them tomorrow... wee! Should be fun. At some venue I've never been to, too. I hope the sound won't suck.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by DarkLink2135

No, I just think you are an idiot.

You find them disappointing because they are becoming more popular, and have to hide that fact behind some pathetic facade. I called you out on it and you PMS'd all over the place.

That's all this is, and no amount of douching all over this forum is going to change my view on that.

LOL! I find them disappointing because the music is coma-inducing derivativeness with no balls and I said this time and time again. But thanks for proving my point. Here, have some of this.

Originally Posted by knkwzrd

Darklink, you might consider that when everyone else in the thread agrees with Morrigan, a fairly rare occurrence in and of itself, that you could be the one who misinterpreted a post in this specific situation.

Hehehe... No kidding.

Originally Posted by niki

Well, it's basically a Pagan/Medieval indoor festival taking place in the biggest concert room/nightclub of Paris. There will be:

Eluveitie
Skyforger
Bran Barr
Stille Volk
Varg
Heidevolk
Aktarum
Niflheim
Folge dem wind
Itakk
Bella Sorte

The last 2 are medieval/folk bands. That and animations, shops, restaurants, all in a kind of "medieval" fashion heh. I was mentioning you since Stille Volk will be there, who are the Hantaoma guys. =)

I can't wait to see Heidevolk, personally. <3

Dear fucking Cthulhu almighty, Stille Volk!!1!1 *faints*
I really, really hate you now. Officially. I saw Ensiferum Thursday, for the second time and it was awesome, but I still hate you.
Montreal is pretty good for metal concerts, but for real European folk music we are drier than DarkLink's cunt (sorry, couldn't resist ). The best we get are things like... these guys.

If you can get to meet the Stille Volk guys (I'm assuming you are not going to miss this festival), ask them what the hell they're up to. I want a new album. A new Hantoma will also work.

How ya doing, buddy?

Yeah, I had checked Heidevolk a while ago but for some reason didn't really pay much attention, but I tried them again and I do like them.

Let me know if you have anything you recommend in that list. Yeah, I'm lazy and will let you do my work for me since you have a headstart. Other than Stille Volk, are there any non-metal bands in there or are those all folk metal?

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I think he misunderstands a lot of what the so-called "NSBM" folks actually say. Most of them do realize that Slavs were despised by the nazis, for example; it's not the actual WW2 German political application of national-socialism that appeals to them, but more abstract notions and ideals.

That said, I don't think I disagree with a single thing in there. I just think he's attacking a bit of a strawman. But I don't blame him for getting irritated at stupid NSBM kids using his music for their propaganda. I can already feel poor Falconsbane's heart ripping in half.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

B-but, it's triumphant nihilism! And stuff.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Not really about metal but I saw something (by browsing last.fm randomly, of all things) that reminded me of the recent bit about the folk metal/folk festival thread: this event.
Skyclad, Hedningarna, Corvus Corax AND Omnia? FUUUUUUUUCK I love and hate Europe so much.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

How is Corvus Corax too modern? There are orchestrations on the more recent stuff, but it's not like they have folk-rock parts like Hedningarna (which I still like, at least some albums, but they do sound modern). And folk metal doesn't exactly sound like tr00 ancient folk...

Omnia is as far away from modern (unless you count the occasional use of didjeridoo :P) as possible. Totally badass folk. Here are some samples I had uploaded a while ago for some other people:

The Wylde Hunt
Morrigan (The Mother, the Maiden, the Crone) (the lyrics to that one are totally metal )
Etrezomp ni Kelted
Teutates

Sorry for the threadjack. >_>

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....Did you just say "ew" at the didjeridoo?

Seriously, what's wrong with some people.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Didjeridoo is like guimbarde, it's awesome anytime, anywhere.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I could have sworn you were already familiar with them. Anyway, they sound right up your alley. Be sure to check Vo Slavu Velikim, it's probably their best.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Thanks, downloading. But I'll listen to it later, since I'm leaving for an hopefully not too boring Christmas party at my boyfriend's folks. He got them a Wii, let's hope that makes things more fun a bit. :P

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Walls of Jericho >>>>>> all other Helloween.

How ya doing, buddy?

Hosting problems, as always. I am getting very, very impatient about this myself. It's been nearly five fucking days now...
The retards made some sort of server/control panel upgrade (without ever notifying me, mind you - I checked my bulk folder and got NO email from them), and apparently "missed" my site somehow while doing this (nevermind that I'm doubtlessly their biggest fucking client). And I'm not even part of their new billing cycle. The whole thing is a complete mess and I can barely reach them for answers - in fact, what little news I've got came from an ex-senior employee there with whom I've kept contact (and who in turn contacted them), not even the company themselves. What the fuck, indeed.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Schadenfreude

Long time no see, metal thread. <3

Anyway, any recommendations in regards to good death metal bands? Preferably ones that don't blast endlessly from start to finish. I have enough of those. Maybe something like Funebre and/or Unleashed?

Luciferion, Bolt Thrower, Morbid Angel, Behemoth, Arghoslent, the Darkthrone debut, Dismember and Possessed are among my favourites, but you probably know them already. More death/thrash but I'm very fond of Torture Squad from Brazil, too (shits all over nu-Sepultura for certain).

Originally Posted by Goldfish from Hell

Wow, really? I can't seem to get into that one and I like a good portion of their discography. Their new album is pretty solid. Vouching for the Keeper albums as well, but took some time to get used to Kiske's voice. "I'm Alive" and "Save Us" (along with "We Damn the Night" from Dark Ride) are probably my favorite Helloween songs.


Also loving Edguy...Hellfire Club is one of my favorite albums of all-time.

That's it, I'm revoking your right to use this avatar. You aren't metal enough. :P

I keed, but seriously, while I enjoy some later Helloween, Walls of Jericho shits all over the rest, for one obvious reason: it has balls.

How ya doing, buddy?

Check out Like An Ever Flowing Stream by Dismember. A classic of the genre, and worthy of the name.

FELIPE NO

Oooh, link plz kthx!!1

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I got that one off eBay.
Thanks dude, downloading.
In the meantime... this is pretty cool:
YouTube - In Flames - Moonshield
YouTube - Dark Tranquillity - The Gallery Piano RemiX

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Thanks, downloading. (Edit: no I'm not, Megaupload is... down? )

I'm hearing the new Testament now. And I got the new Moonsorrow too, both from Bunalti.com | Sharing Our Pain if anyone's interested. I hope neither disappoint too much...

Edit: WTF, I just copied the URL and it generated that link without asking me... stupid vBulletin.

How ya doing, buddy?

Arkona has a female vocalist. The band also happens to kick serious ass.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Thanks, downloading (again). I did manage to download that Nevid debut after all, listening to it right now. I couldn't get into Butterfly Temple much but this seems actually better.

For the record, the new Testament is... eh, sounds decent, but I might have to listen to it again, it wasn't overwhelmingly awesome or anything, and that's a bad sign for thrash. :P Still, not too bad, considering the latest outputs by the big thrash names such as Overkill, Exodus, etc. who completely and utterly SUCK.

And that new Moonsorrow EP was pretty badass too. They managed to make For Whom The Bell Tolls sound completely like their own song.

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Never heard of them, but reviews on M-A compare them vaguely to My Dying Bride and old Anathema, but then, you probably heard those too since they're far less obscure... anyway, you might want to check out their last.fm page too.

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Living Legend: try this?

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?